'Proof' of PA perfidy
All Posts post a reply | post a new topic

AuthorTopic: 'Proof' of PA perfidy
topic by
John Calvin
4/12/2002 (9:14)
 reply top
The foundation of all these articles offering 'proof' of Arafat's and PA perfidy-and supposedly justifying Israel's actions- is calling actions 'terror' which Arafat, the PA, the Arab League, Iran and most of the European community call 'legitimate self-defense in a war of national liberation'.
Now Seth and whoever can go on posting their 'proofs' as long as they like- but understand, they are not at all convincing, don't add a single weight to the fundamental dispute, waste space and should be considered hostile and annoying, blockheaded at best.

Does a Quaker go down to the local Roman Catholic Church every Sunday, interupt the Mass to rail against idolatry? Do Republicans go down the local caucus of the Democratic party and interupt the discussions with Rush Limbauds latest attacks of 'fuzy-headed liberalism'? Of course not, because among all (or most) of the interest groups in this country certain standards of courtesy are agreed upon. Debates between fundamentally opposing points of view are reseved for places like Congress, State Legislatures, City Hall, Campaign Debates or Websites specifically formulated to accomodate all points of view like the one at The Independent which allows each participant to establish their own thread without interfering and taking up the time and space of people on a different thread.

Of course MER is to be praised for the total freedom of access it provides in this forum. This is a reflection of their liberality, openess and courage to entertain views generally considered vile and excluded from almost every other forum in this country. On the other hand, those who continually abuse the privilege so provided can hardly expect to earn the respect or get much of a reply from those who are making an effort to engage in productive and civilized discussions.


reply by
TheAZCowBoy
4/12/2002 (9:58)
 reply top
Re: PA Perfidy?

A look at the devastation, old Palestinian women wailing as their homes have been demolished and their children murdered by the Israeli thugs is the 'only' Perfidy this American can see.

TheAZCowboy,
reply by
JC
4/12/2002 (10:21)
 reply top
John,

If you are interested in lecturing Seth and others about forum decorum I suggest you address some of the other participants about their violations of social norms and standards. Their posts can also certainly be said to add little of substance to a serious discussion of the issues. To your credit, I know you do speak out against the holocause deniers, but there are plenty of other folks who engage in needless character assassinations and rude behavior as well.

As for your effort to expel a dissenting voice in the discussion I refer you to the Viet Nam anti-war activists and the Civil Rights demonstrators in the 1960s. Neither of these groups was welcome to voice their opinion in various forums, but both felt it necessary to do so in order to see that justice is done. Justice from their perspective at least.
I've been in other forums where right wing zionists have sought to silence the voice of those with opposing perspectives, and I have cried foul. I'm sure as hell not going to sit idly by while you attempt to do the same here.

I encourage participants to avoid juvenille name calling and participate in a fair and open-minded discussion of the issues at hand. Dissenting views are encouraged as long as they are done in a spirit of good faith and add something to the discussion.

Peace.
reply by
Someone
4/12/2002 (11:03)
 reply top
Hello all,

This article was presented by MER in June-July last year.

It gives great insight about the so called peace(piece) process and the thought process of the Israeli leadership.

Seth, JC, and Beth. Please read it carefully as it proves many of your posting totaly inaccurate.

Peace.
________________
'THE SECOND HALF OF 1948'

June 20, 2001

THE SHARON-YA'ALON PLAN

By Prof. Tanya Reinhart*

Official declarations and many reports in the Israeli media indicate that the Israeli military and political leadership are aiming, eventually, at a total destruction of the Palestinian authority, and, with it, the process of Oslo, which is now dominantly considered by them a 'historical mistake'. Let us trace some of the background for this development.
Ever since the 1967 occupation, the military and political elites (which have been always closely intertwined in Israel) deliberated over the question of how to keep maximum land with minimum Palestinian population. The leaders of the '1948 generation' - Alon, Sharon, Dayan, Rabin and Peres - were raised on the myth of redemption of land. But a simple solution of annexation of the occupied territories would have turned the occupied Palestinians into Israeli citizens, and this would have caused what has been labeled the 'demographic problem' - the fear that the Jewish majority could not be preserved. Therefore, two basic conceptions were developed.

The Alon plan consisted of annexation of 35-40% of the territories to Israel, and self-rule or partnership in a confederation of the rest, the land on which the Palestinians actually live. This plan originated with those who thought that it is impossible to repeat the 1948 'solution' of mass expulsion, for moral as well as world public opinion considerations. The second view, whose primary spokesman was Sharon, assumed that it is possible to find more acceptable and sophisticated ways to achieve a 1948 style 'solution' - it is only necessary to find another country for the Palestinians, such as Jordan, and to make sure that as many as possible of them will move there. This was a part of Sharon's global worldview by which Israel can establish 'new orders' in the region (see the Lebanon war).

In Oslo, the Alon plan route triumphed, where gradually it became apparent that it is even possible to extend the 'Arab-free' areas. In practice, the Palestinians have already been dispossessed of half of their lands, which are now state lands, security zones and 'land reserves for the settlements'. However, it appeared that Israel will be satisfied with that, and will allow the PA to run the enclaves in which the Palestinians still reside. The security establishment expressed full confidence in the ability of the Palestinian security forces - which were created and trained in cooperation with the Israeli ones - to control the frustration of the Palestinians and protect the security of the settlers and the Israeli home front.

But the victory of the Alon plan wasn't complete. Even the little that the Palestinians did get, seemed too much to some in the military circles, whose most vocal spokesman in the early years of Oslo was then chief of staff, Ehud Barak. Another consistent voice which has emerged is that of Brigadier Moshe (Bugi) Ya'alon, who is also known for his connections with the settlers. As head of the military intelligence -Ama'n- (1995-1998), Ya'alon confronted the subsequent chief of staff, Amnon Shahak, an Oslo supporter, and has consolidated the anti-Oslo line which now dominates the military intelligence view. Contradicting the Shin Bet position and the many media reports about security cooperation between Israel and the Palestinian authority, Ya'alon claimed in a cabinet meeting in September 1997, and later, that 'Arafat is giving a green light to terror'.

The objection to the Oslo conception in the military circles was based on the view that it will be impossible to maintain such an arrangement in the long term. If the Palestinians have a political infrastructure and armed forces, they will eventually try to rebel. Therefore, the only way is to overthrow the Palestinian authority, and the whole Oslo conception. The first step on this route is to convince the public that Arafat is still a terrorist and is personally responsible for the acts of all groups from the Islamic Jihad to Hizbollah.

During Barak's days in office, Ya'alon became one of his closets confidants in the restricted military team which Barak has assembled to work with (Amir Oren, Ha'aretz, Nov 17, 00). The same team was prepared already at the beginning of the Intifada for a total attack on the Palestinian authority, on both the military and the propaganda levels. On the later, this included the 'White book' on the crimes of Arafat and the PA. This is the same team which is now briefing the political level, as well as US representatives, and is responsible for the dominance of the call for toppling the PA.

In modern times, wars aren't openly started over land and water. In order to attack, you first need to prove that the enemy isn't willing to live in peace and is threatening our mere existence. Barak managed to do that. Now conditions are ripe for executing Sharon's plan, or as Ya'alon put it in November 2000, for 'the second half of 1948'. Before we reach that black line, there is one option which was never tried before: to leave the occupied territories now.

* Prof. Reinhart is Professor of Linguistics at Tel Aviv University. This article was published on June 10 in Hebrew by Yediot Aharonot. The author can be reached at Tanya@MiddleEast.Org
reply by
truth
4/12/2002 (11:31)
 reply top
You really think that you have informed JC and seth of facts they did not know ????
reply by
barb
4/12/2002 (11:46)
 reply top
'reply from those who are making an effort to engage in productive and civilized discussions.'
************************
Yes, tell Wizzo and his fanatics to get the hell off the board with their constant cursing and threats!
************************
'productive and civilized' as long as they agree 100% with you, right, John? Maybe REAL DISCUSSION is just too scary for you? Some posters on this board remind me of Stalin's regime.