The truth about the so called massacres
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AuthorTopic: The truth about the so called massacres
topic by
Phil Rogers
4/19/2002 (17:44)
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The claim that there was a 'massacre' in the Jenin refugee camp has been taken up by many news media around the world, human rights groups and even among many governments. This claim, originally made during the height of the fighting in the refugee camp, reverberates with gravity, seriously damaging Israel's political campaign to justify its self defense against terror and the legitimacy of the means it is using in that campaign.

In Israel, too, suspicions were raised that there was truth to the Palestinian claims. Many feared that Jenin would be added to the black list of massacres that have shocked the world. The IDF contributed to those fears when it issued a preliminary estimate of hundreds of dead in the camp (it turned out that several score were killed, with the exact number still unknown) and by blocking journalists from entering the camp to report what was happening inside. That was an invitation to another charge, also widely reported, of an alleged cover-up.

In recent days, journalists - including Ha'aretz reporters - have visited the camp, gathering their own first-hand impressions and eyewitness testimony about the IDF's operations. Ha'aretz reporter Amira Hass spent several days in the camp, and her report appears in today's pages. There is evidence of intense combat, but, with appropriate caution, it can already be said what did not happen in the Jenin refugee camp. There was no massacre. No order from above was given, nor was a local initiative executed, to deliberately and systematically kill unarmed people.

In Israel of 2002, there is practically no way to cover up atrocities. Testimony by commanders and fighters in Jenin, many of whom were civilians called up into reserves for the purpose of the operation, as well as testimony by those who observed the events through various means refute the claims of a massacre. The fighting was intense, as could be expected in built-up areas, and especially against the background of rapid Israeli successes in other areas, particularly the Nablus casbah. Armed Palestinians shot, blew up and mined houses and alleyways. The soldiers, who had difficulty progressing, used bulldozers and suffered heavy losses - 23 soldiers were killed. Under such circumstances, civilians were also harmed. That is a terrible, sorrowful fact, resulting from the nature of the fighting, and in some specific cases there should be an examination to determine whether everything necessary was done to prevent civilian casualties. But declaring the fighting in Jenin a 'massacre' is a mistake on the part of the naive, and a slander by others.

Palestinian propagandists have made perverse use of legends that, in part, were invented outside Jenin. Leading these propagandists were officials of the Palestinian Authority who issued baseless charges of 'executions,' fanning the flames of hatred against Israel. The readiness of international elements, including the heads of the European Union, to accept the Palestinian version without question, is testimony to their character, to Israel's fragile situation and to Ariel Sharon's negative image.


reply by
Head in the sand
4/19/2002 (19:23)
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Did you hear UN speacial rep Larsen yesterday. It went something like, 'Jenin seems to have been hit by an earthquake. There is smell of rotting flesh everywhere. The evidence of usage of disproportionate force is every where. This operation will forever remain a blot on the history of state of Israel. (approximate quote)'
If after hearing, you still defend Israel's actions and quarrel with the details (100s dead or less), you argument has no weight. You are just an apologist for the IDF thugs.
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
4/19/2002 (19:34)
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The IDF-vs-Jenin-vs-Phil, the keyboard warrior on MER.

Yes, Israeli newspapers, Ha/aretz and Arutz-7 both reported that 'two' of the dead bodies found in Jenin by 'their' reporters had explosive belts on---what do you expect the Jewish parasites to do--build a case for the UN Human Rights Commission?!

However, the UN representitive said the 'stench' was unbearable, that bodies had been bull dozed under, that there were dead women and children as young as 5 and even infants laying there dead from machinegun bullets. Houses were destroyed and looking worse that if an earthquake had hit Jenin.

What a difference in the two interpretations, huh Phil?

TheAZCowBoy,

PS: The UN is sending a fact finding team to investigate the IDF pogrom but the Jewish parasites are threatening to veto the idea 'if the JEWzies do not take part in both the 'investigation and the final report.'
reply by
John Calvin
4/19/2002 (20:03)
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Actually, Israel accepts a 'fact-finding' mission but not 'an investigation'.

This is like the 'open forum' down at City Hall where citizens get to share 5 or ten minutes to say what they like, Then its back to business as usual.
reply by
Wisso
4/19/2002 (20:48)
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Rogers...im beggining to think that yer severly handicaped..and blind at the same time.....Jenin in 1 week looks like Kabul after 20 years of civil war god damnit and u dare to post that crap about thos 100 or less dead?.......man some help ....do u need a wheel chair?
reply by
Phil Rogers
4/19/2002 (22:50)
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Don't make fun of me because I'm handicapped Wusso. I'll sitck my cane so far up your ass you'll wish you were buried in the rubble in Jenin.
reply by
A DEVASTATED POPULATION...
4/19/2002 (24:52)
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JENIN LOOKED LIKE IT WAS FLATTENED BY AN ATOMIC BOMB... CHECK OUT ..(1)..counterpunch.org ... ..(2)... jmcc.org ... (3)... hearpalestine.org ... (3).. jerusalem.indymedia.org ..(4)... palestinereport.org ... ..(5).. reportersnotebook.com .. Message board...
reply by
carol
4/20/2002 (3:28)
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Unfortunately, Phil, I don't think Wisso will consider that a punishment. Think of something else.
reply by
Seth Sims
4/20/2002 (9:20)
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A few questions:

What constitutes a massacre?

Using your definition, how many massacres were there in the world in the past 12 months? Past 3 years? Past 10 years?

How much sleep did the French lose over the hundred thousand Checnyans killed by the Russians?
The thousands of Kurds killed by Iraq?
The thousands of non-Muslim Sudanese killed by Muslim Sudanese?
Armenians Killed by Azerbajanis in Ngarano Karabakh?
Afghanis killed by Americans?
Americans killed by Muslim extremists?

As I berate the Israelis for killing some civillians in their effort to kill gunmen with blood on their hands, I'd like to put it in real world context.
reply by
Oh Yeah
4/20/2002 (13:30)
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Why can not you put a few hundred Israeli killed by palestinians in perspective? In the scheme of things, what is the big deal? Why do we in the US only hear about the poor Israelis ALL the time. Listening to and watching the american media, it seems that that is all that is happening in the world.
reply by
Wisso
4/20/2002 (15:33)
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rogers.....the only way u could do that is with the help of 5 F16 30 Merkava tanks a couple of a1 abrahams 20 000 soldiers behind yer back....cos we all know u jews r a bunch of transexuals gay ass sluts who cant fight for shit.........Best exeple: they used f 16 and tanks to bomb palestinains trowing rocks at israeli soldiers......

i just wounder what wouldve happened to israeli army if Palestinians had RPG....not tanks...only RPG......im sure it wouldve been a total diffrent story....

and rogers....if u live in the montreal region..im sure we can arrange a lil meeting between me n u!
reply by
Rogers
4/20/2002 (16:18)
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If you're a man you'll bring your sorry little ass down to Arizona so I can ram my crutch so far up your hairy ass you'll sue me for damaging your tonsils.

Or maybe I'll get my daughter to go fight for me. That's the way of your people isn't it?