topic by
Someone
10/25/2001 (16:25)

I was wondering if the members of this board would share their thoughts on how the problem of Israel/Palestine can be resolved.

Here is some background information:

1. We know that Europe never loved Jews and stayed silent during their massacre in Germany.

2. Also, Jews too need a place to settle down, spacially when you consider the traditional treatment they got from Europe.

3. Do the Islamic/Jewish law allows to share the holly places? How about if Jews retain the control over their Holly wall while Muslims gets control over the Aqsa Mosque. Also, both parties get the rights to those portions of the city which provide access to these locations.

4. Historically, Muslims and Jews had not had a fight before the creation of Israel. According to one historian, the second Caliph Umar invited 80 Jewish families to settle down in Jerusalam when he was handed the keys of the city. Another version says that he requested the Christians to allow Jews to visit the Jerusalam. The same version says that Christian agreed to that but insisted that Jews cannot settle down, meaning cannot buy any property.

5. Also, I have read that it was Saladin, one who got the Jerusalam from Crusaders, who asked for the permission that Jews can buy the property and settle in Jerusalam.

6. When Jews and Muslims where killed in Spain by the Army of Queen Isabela, many jews moved to Ottoman Empire (Turkey).

What I have tried here is to point out past actions where Muslims and Jews were able to accomodate each other.

How can it be done today without asking the other party to part ways with its holy sites.

Please try to offer solutions rather then simply accusing other party as this is already being done. Also, asking either Palestinian or Jews to just dissolve in thin air is also not a viable solution :)

Regards,
Someone

reply by
Barb
10/25/2001 (20:30)

reply top

Finally - Someone sounds like a person of reason. I too, am looking for answers, not endless finger pointing and blaming which solves zero and just stirs up more hatred.
Yes, the Jews are not going to just disappear out of Palestine. Someone wrote and said they are not even 'Jews' and should 'slither back where they came from!' Well, wherever they 'came from' is irrelvant, is it not? They are there in Israel now. If white people in North America were told to 'slither back where they came from' the entire nation would be gone (back to Africa, Europe, etc.) except the red indians who were here first. It's interesting to compare how the red Indian has tried to adapt after being 'taken over' and in some parts -- not all admittedly -- is thriving. This doesn't make it 'right' that white man took over, but that is life-- that is history -- that is reality.
Someone, it's 'holy places' not 'holly places.' Khilafah's endless religious preaching is falling on deaf ears because he thinks the world sees everything through his black and white lens. America has allowed for diversity and even the ability to not practice religion. If we compare western society with the mideast, which is more developed? Who has a better lifestyle Who is more educated? If Islam is so great according to Khilafah, why is the mideast still living in the 5th century? He accuses Bush (or all of us-- I'm not sure) of trying to squash Islam. Most of us don't even care about it unless we personally practice the religion. I don't think I'm only speaking for myself when I say that I certainly don't feel 'threatened' by Islam as he would like to believe we all are. There are many African Americans in the US who practice Islam and its never been an issue or a problem in any way! That is the greatness of our society -- Khilafah again 'accuses us' of
practicing secularism.' Excuse me -- what business is it of yours? Are you God? We are a self-determined people who have chosen a way of life that we can all live with peacefully. If Islam is so peaceful why does the mideast seem to do nothing but fight with their neighbors? Instead of worrying about 21st century job skills, they're fighting over religion and teaching young boys to 'hate and kill Americans' as a lifelong goal. Wow-- what a commendable life goal, I think God would agree, eh? Actually, I do believe the true message of Islam is peace. However, I think the people in the mideast who practice it are very very misguided and interpret it any way they wish to achieve their goal, which I am not sure is to ONLY get the Jews out of Israel. The extemists have other goals to take over the world, similar to Hitler's worldview. THat everyone must be THE SAME. The US has always believed in DIFFERENT BUT EQUAL. Not a bunch of blind sheep. I don't believe extreme Muslims will ever be happy and will always look for reasons to hate America and Americans.

reply by
Someone
10/26/2001 (9:45)

reply top

I am sorry to point out that you have fallen into the same trap, 'finger pointing'.

I do not find any solution in your response.

How can we resolve the problem?

reply by
D
10/26/2001 (11:55)

reply top

I don't think there will ever be a solution to the problem so long as Israel remains in its current guise - modern Zionism after all calls for an exclusive state for Jews, thus the mass immigration from europe etc.

A 2 state solution is not viable either. The Palestinians will never accept Israel as a viable state because they were displaced. Proposing a two state solution is akin to asking South Africa to split into two states (prior to the elections). The only way is to have a single state inclusive of all the people of the land - Muslims, Christians, and Jews. The problem is the nature of modern Zionism that stupilates exclusivity of Israel for Jews. Muslims on the other hand, as someone correctly points out, included Jews in that land under the Caliphate. Orthodox Rabbis also recognise that Zionism does not relfect Judaism. Theodor Herzl, the founder of modern Zionism, did not do so on any religious pretext - it is a secular movement and was decired as heresey by Rabbis at the time of its inception. So the way I see it - Zionism is the problem and so long as it remains, the problems in Palestine will never be solved. Remove Zionism and there will be hope for peace.

reply by
David
11/11/2001 (11:49)

reply top

Re: The Jews propensity for being hated and kicked out of wherever they are.

In Germany the Jews contolled banking, commerce, even the price of wine. They humiliated the German people to the point that a little guy with a funny mustache turned them against the Jew with the fury of hades and the rest is history.

In the US the Jews have done much the same---they control ( reads own ) the media ( among many other things ) and manipulate public opinion ( how many times have Natanyahu, Sharon & Peres--the 3 Jewish stooges been on TV these past 7 weeks? ).

They ( AIPAC/ZOA ) manipulate the US Congress, the Pantagon, et al. Remember, a decade ago? Their 'Why don't you and he fight?' ( the US/Iraq war that was fought by the US to make the Middle East a safer place for the Zionist interlopers ).

Is there any doubt that the MOSSAD will provide the US with the 'evidence' that the current anthrax problem we are experiencing right now emminated from Iraq?

Today, Israel steals 40% of its daily water requirements from the Palestinian's West Bank & Gaza aquifers---and what does the US say about this? ABSOLUTELY NADA!

The Clinton/Barak Camp David ( surrender ) Agreement placed the Palestinian's into a clover leaf shaped RESERVATION surrounded by the IDF thugs--who BTW were to be their 1st line of defense(!) since they were not to be allowed to have a self defense military force.

Today, Israel occupies 78% of the land designated by the Balfour Declaration for both a Palestine and an Israel. Of the remaining 22% ( criss- crossed by Jewish bypass roads, illegal Jewish settlements, IDF military camps ) came the now famous '95%' offer by the Clinton/Barak coconspirators ( of the 22% )of the West Bank & Gaza were offered to the Palestinians---in full settlement of all Palestinian claims against the Zionist State!

Can we now agree as to why Arafat gave Clinton/Barak and the Camp David Agreement--the extended middle finger?

The atheist Zionists ( hated by the decent Torah Jews and Palestinians alike ) are destined by their very deeds to die as they have lived---by the sword. ( It's called POETIC JUSTICE ).

Have no doubts---as soon as the Iranian Al-Shabab III IRBM with its CIS nuclear/chemical warheads become operational we will see the Zionists packing ( once again )and moving on from their devastated land...perhaps then, the US will give them Jeb Bushes' Florida and there that can setup their 1/2 acre of Zionist hell and the US can put up with these arrogant incorrigibles and their continious flow of arrogant caca.

Good-Day

reply by
David
11/12/2001 (1:11)

reply top

Re: Not really Jews, huh?

Hey Barb: I thought you might be interested in knowing that 35%-75% of the CIS Jews currently immigrating to Israel---ARE NOT EVEN JEWS! ( Her'ertz, 07-16-2001 )

The most pathetic thing I have read was after the bombing of Pasha's dico in Tel Aviv several months ago- killing 21 young Russian teens--( alledgedly by the Palestinians---but the MOSSAD later accused a fringe group of the old IRGUN Jewish terrorists trying to inflame the world's opinion against the Palestinians ).

Anyhow, none of these dead Russian 'Jews' were allowed to be buried in Jewish cemetaries by the authorities, alledgedly because 'they were not Jewish!'

Who understands these Zionist devils?

reply by
Barb
11/12/2001 (24:26)

reply top

Why do some on this board think that I support the evil Jews in Israel? I don't. I'm sure there are good people there too, but I don't support any one who is a bigot, racist, or a pig. Anyway, having said that, I'm sick of the ethnicity problems --for God's sakes -- we're all just PEOPLE!