There Was No Massacre In Jenin - Human Rights Watch
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AuthorTopic: There Was No Massacre In Jenin - Human Rights Watch
topic by
Human Rights Watch
4/28/2002 (19:17)
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As a UN fact-finding mission prepares to investigate allegations of a massacre in Jenin, most aid workers in the city say that they have come to one major conclusion - though massive destruction took place in the refugee camp, there was clearly no massacre.

Aid workers and local doctors have found 52 corpses so far. The workers believe that 21 of them were civilians, including four women, two 14 year old boys, two invalids, and two or three elderly men.

'The majority of those killed,' said Peter Bouckaert, a senior researcher at US-based Human Rights Watch posted to Jenin, 'were killed by snipers. Only one man, that we know of, was crushed in his home by a bulldozer.' Bouckaert, whose group has worked closely with medical teams at Jenin Hospital, believes that very few corpses remain buried beneath the tons of rubble. The area of the worst destruction has come to be known among foreign rescue workers, Palestinians, and IDF soldiers alike, as 'Ground Zero.' Bouckaert was almost certain, he told The Jerusalem Post, that the death toll will not rise beyond 80.

'There is simply no evidence of a massacre. But we are worried that Israel will use this fact to whitewash the enormous amount of damage done to the civilian sector.' There is still no electricity in the camp, burst water pipes have flooded low lying areas, and the camp's two schools remain closed.

Posters of 'martyrs' and Hamas and Islamic Jihad flags are again in evidence on the few structures left standing at 'Ground Zero.' Aid groups, including UNWRA, B'Tselem, LAW, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch are still tallying lists of dead, injured, and displaced, as well as the number of houses destroyed, rendered unlivable, or simply damaged.

Nearly every building in the refugee camp, and many in Jenin city itself, were damaged in the fierce two-week battle waged in the town. The IDF estimates that about 10 percent of the structures in the camp were destroyed, while Jenin Governor Zuneir Munasra said about 40% of the camp's buildings were destroyed and another 20% rendered unlivable.

The Jenin Governorate and other Palestinian Authority bodies have halted the removal of debris ahead of today's arrival of the UN commission headed by headed by former Finnish president Martti Ahtisaari, despite the desire of UNWRA and other aid organizations to restore the camp to normal

Also hindering search and rescue work, says UNWRA Deputy Director Charles Capes, is the large number of unexploded ordinance lying about the camp. Last week British and Norwegian sappers remove some of the booby traps, but they returned home leaving most of the job undone. A French Civil Guard rescue team began Friday to mark and isolate buildings or areas believed to be unsafe.

Capes said Palestinian gunmen planted many of the booby traps while other ordinance had been left behind by IDF. Since April 19 one person has been killed and at least 12 were wounded by unexploded ordinance in the camp.

Capes said that as many as 3,500 people have been left without shelter. Munasra told the Post that many of them refuse to use the some 800 tents and other equipment sent by US Agency for International Development because they believe the US was 'complicit in the attack on their camp.'

reply by
Wisso
4/28/2002 (19:47)
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Then answer me this watcher:

why isnt sharon allowing UN inspectors to do their njobs and investigate??



reply by
Celia
4/28/2002 (19:55)
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The UN has been hijacked by people who are anti-Israel. The Israelis need to make sure they are not being set up.


While the U.N. will be investigating how many Palestinian gunmen and civilians were killed by Israeli troops in Jenin, they will not be investigating the wanton execution of three Palestinians in Hebron without hearings or trials for suspected collaboration with Israel. That is known as lynching, defined in the dictionary as 'murdering an accused person by mob action and without lawful trial.' But that is routine Palestinian justice, and that is not the first time that such lynchings have taken place.

According to the April 24 Boston Globe, 'The three Palestinian men were rousted from their beds yesterday morning, hands trussed behind their backs and gags shoved in their mouths. Then they were shoved and yanked over to Salam Street, where they were shot dead as a mob of their compatriots cheered and jeered. … Even telling a Jew the name of the street on which you stand is a betrayal of the people, one of the masked gunmen told onlookers at the execution scene. … During the heavy fighting of the first three weeks of April, militias summarily executed dozens of suspected informants, some simply for having had business dealings with Israelis.'

The Palestinian Authority has done nothing to curb this form of mob justice. It reminds us of what happened early in the intifada when two Israeli reservists happened to mistakenly drive into Palestinian territory and were brutally murdered by a frenzied mob. That 'incident' has been forgotten by the media and the U.N.

Yet, the Palestinians are demanding that their gunmen holed up in the Church of the Nativity should be handed over to the Palestinian Authority for trial in Gaza, where no doubt they will be acquitted as patriots. Israel is anxious to arrest about 30 of the gunmen, wanted for deadly attacks on Israelis.

We don't expect the U.N. or Europeans or Palestinian sympathizers to be concerned with Palestinian justice as practiced against other Palestinians. Their only concern is what Israel does in its own defense against the barbarism of the Palestinians.

Meanwhile, three Armenian Orthodox priests managed to escape from the church with the help of Israeli troops when they hung a sign from a window away from the gunmen which read, 'Please help us.' After they escaped, they reported that the militants smashed crucifixes, urinated on relics, and destroyed furniture and glass. The priests themselves, dehydrated and starved, were treated in a rough, threatening manner by the gunmen.

It is becoming more and more obvious that the only way that Palestinians and Israelis can ever become reconciled is if a new leadership develops among the Palestinians. The present leadership represents the self-destructive, barbaric policies of Yasser Arafat. There can be no peace as long as Arafat remains the leader of the Palestinians. Obviously, there are many rational Palestinians who would like to make peace with the Israelis, but they don't dare say a word or make a move while mob justice rules the territory.

We have been told over and over again by the Palestinians that there can be no peace as long as Israeli settlements remain in the West Bank and Gaza. A million Arabs live in Israel, so why can't 200,000 Jews live in the West Bank and Gaza? Why must Arab Palestine be Judenrein? The settlements were built on unoccupied land and did not displace any Arab towns or villages. With Israel being as small as it is, the settlements are little more than suburbs of Jerusalem or Tel Aviv. Besides, both Samaria and Judea are just as much part of the Promised Land as the rest of Israel. Jews have as much right to live there as the Arabs.

But since Arafat has done everything in his power to whip up the most bitter and murderous hatred of Jews among Palestinians, the likelihood of peace in the near future seems quite remote. Meanwhile, the best the Israelis can hope for is a reduction in suicide bombings and other terrorist acts against them. Otherwise, there will have to be more incursions in Palestinian territory.
reply by
John Calvin
4/28/2002 (20:07)
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No massacre at the REFUGEE CAMP- REFUGEE CAMP! This terms is fitted into reports like 'the corner of 45th street and Vine' or, like it was just any old place, like the term Refugee Camp is supposed not to be of any special significance. That's just a name like any other, not really a place where people who have been unlawfully and maliciously driven from their homes, impoverished, subjected to humiliation and depedency, deprived of every right associated with cioizenship in the civilized world have been given sancuary, and now subjected to brutal attacks and destruction of whatever property they still have, subjected to thirst, hunger, terror and whatnot without being given the least hope or assurance of anything better for the future.

Now we are told - there was not a massacre- this is supposed to acquit sharon and Israelis, make what they did all right, put the entire burden of getting talks started back on Arafat?

Who in his or her right mind swallows this sort of B.S.? Only in the U.S. could the alleged fact that there was no massacre seem to make a real diffrence, and stay the condemnation which the Israelis riuchly desrve. The rest of the world doesn't give to figs whether there was 'a massacre' ( as if the people who were killed were somehow not massacred?- how many have to be killed before it is officially a massacre, before the killing gets a UPC for massacre) there was anb invasion and brutal destruction of a REFUGEE CAMP which, by the way, was run by the United Nations.
reply by
Celia
4/28/2002 (20:10)
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John - Was that camp being used as a terrorist launch pad?

Were terrorist holed up there?

Did the UN do anything to control their refugee camp and deny the Israelis with any reason for invading it?

What would you have the Israelis do in response to all those terrorist attacks against them?
reply by
John Calvin
4/28/2002 (20:11)
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Again we are subjected top Celia's total fantasy island rendition of events in Palestine. Her totally assine presumption to come onto the MER chat room and argue the zionist cause.As if we didn't already get a earfull of such drivel from Scot, Barb and Seth.
reply by
Wisso
4/28/2002 (20:13)
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Celia...here s a correction to yer Copy-past statement..im pretty sure u meant

The Israelis need to make sure they hijacked Un with ppl who r Pro-israeli





reply by
Celia
4/28/2002 (20:13)
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You are just like the AZCowboy character.

You are unwilling to answer my questions.

You hate anyone challenging you.

SORRY Mister. I've got a mind of my own.
reply by
Celia
4/28/2002 (20:14)
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Wisso - You are not even worth responding to.

Therefore I won't.
reply by
John Calvin
4/28/2002 (20:19)
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Great Celia, you've got a mind of your own and now you think its wonderful to clogg up discussion room of people who are of a totally different mind. Exactly what do you hope to accomplish, besides just annoying and harassing this group, making yourself feel powerful?
reply by
Celia
4/28/2002 (20:23)
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I came here to learn more about the Middle East.

All I've heard is a whole lotta anti-Jewish, anti-Israel crap, bordering on nazi like language. That and some decent postings on what is really going on in the area.


By the way John, you continue to not address the question I asked you.
What are you doing in this forum?
What is the reason you have taken such an interest in the Middle East? Are you an Arab? Are you a Jew? Are you someone who hates one of the two groups?
reply by
John Calvin
4/28/2002 (20:36)
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I'll put it this way. I am not a Roman Catholic and I don't approve of the way Roman Catholics represent Christianity. But I don't go down to the local Cathedral every Sunday, interrupt Mass and bedevil the congregation with my arguments and complaints. I'm not a Mason either but I don't go down to the Mason Hall every week and make crude jokes about how ridiculous I think the Mason's are. I am not a zionist and I don't go to Zionist orientated web-site discussion group and post my 'hate zionism' messages day after day.

Why don't you take the time to investigate the views of the sponsers of this discussion group and find out what controversies and debates we are involved in- within the context of anti-zionism-or isn't it the case that you are
aware of why this discussion group was established but just feel so god-damned self-righteous you can't refrain from exercising your right to be rude, intolerant and hateful to whomeveryou please regardless of your complete lack of interest or sympathy with the point of view of the people who support MER and are prepared to benefit from the information made available here.

Why don'y you have some basic courtesy and find a discussion room that suits your interest instead of completely wasting our time?
reply by
John Calvin
4/28/2002 (20:37)
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Let me answer that : Because you are a neurotic mental case!
reply by
Celia
4/28/2002 (20:43)
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That is pathetic John. You simply wish to curtail free speech. I've received much better treatment from people on the 'pro-Israel' websites. They agree and disagree with each other on many issues. They are comfortable with my questions and opinions.

I am not here to be rude and mean to others. I simply will not sit still and allow people like barb, Seth, and Carol and myself to be mistreted by bullies. I also think it is important for people to speak out against all the lies that are being presented as truths.

I don't see you ever speaking out against the lies that are posted here and the bullies that lash out against others.

And this is not a church. It is a discussion forum. And there is no membership required.
reply by
John Calvin
4/28/2002 (21:15)
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Well, thanks alot Celia for coming on to this discussion group and attacking our lies. Gee wiz, if it wasn't for you seth, barb and scot how would we have ever guessed what awful lies we were telling?

Let's take a bet. I put five dollars on Celia hanging around doing her thing, bothering the hell out of us and cramming up the list with her idiotic pro-zionist postings for at least 6 weeks, starting today, April 28th. 2002.
reply by
carol
4/28/2002 (22:18)
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See what I mean, celia: name calling...neurotic mental case. Then sarcasm..John Calvin is good with sarcasm...its a meaner form of attacking. Then the insults come. He used a lot in just a couple of posts. All defenses...what are they hiding?
reply by
lusitano
4/28/2002 (22:41)
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first message. , i suppose u would rally for germans in the aftermath of ww2 war against german occupied territories by allies, also in that case i suppose that u would support nazis terrorists that would bomb french civilians in paris cause allies are occupying their country? if thers no peace deal thers no withdraw plain and simple



about UN check most blind eyes in lebanon rockets and mortar shots meters from UN positions by hizbullah(thers much more..)


bombs and arms caches in UN compunds in refugee camps

read palestinian school books in UN schools and shows the hate


UNWRA peter hansen saying that they are civilian camps with no terrorists

btw Russia(chechenia) and China(tibet) are vetoed in last UN human rights summit


amazes me this place, full of self guilty, maybe cause sucess of western world?



reply by
Seth Sims
4/28/2002 (23:16)
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I'll take your bet John Calvin.

I have a feeling you can be obnoxious enough to any one person to drive them away from you.
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
4/28/2002 (23:34)
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TheAZCowBoy 'avoiding' the JAP's Celia's questions?

Huh?

Hey baby, last I heard you were pulling the gefilte fish doughnuts, err, err, I mean bagels from the recycled toilet water that had boiled over on your small portable Kibbutzim LP gas stove!

But now that you're back, DON'T WORRY--BE HAPPY I will be happy to tear you a new one,

LOL!

TAC, 'To know me is to love me!'
reply by
truth
4/28/2002 (24:59)
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The UN has been hijacked by people who are anti-Israel. The Israelis need to make sure they are not being set up.


LOL! WOW grandma .. what big teeth you have!