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Topic: Military 'cowards'-Bill Mahr

topic by Barb 11/15/2001 (24:34)

reply top It's the height of 'imperialistic arrogance' (yes, I'm being sarcastic with the terms) to call the U.S. military personnel cowards as the idiotic Bill Mahr stated then quickly retracted when his advertisers pulled their ads. (what a coward Mahr is! He can't even stand by his OWN statements!) Most of the people that join the military do so for a variety of reasons (economic, etc.) and many are 'people of color.' They all deserve the utmost respect of US citizens. Obviously, Sandra has never known any military personnel who have had their legs blown off in Vietnam. I don't really think these military people are 'cowards.' How utterly disrespectful and arrogant of this moron Sandra to state this.

reply by You wish 11/16/2001 (7:48)

reply top I served in the US-ARMY and in the USMC. I can tell you now that if she was one of the people imprisoned for teaching her religion in a far away country I would still get her out at all costs. knowing full well that I my be killed for it. I think it was the way I was brought up or it is just the right thing to do. yes she is an ID10T and I have to respect that. I don't have to like it but what are you going to do. :-) some day I hope she could be put in a situation that the people of Afghanistan have been in for the last five years with Taliban control. I am so happy for the people now, now that they can dance, play music and go to school. God bless the world for standing up and helping people that needed the help.

reply by You wish 11/16/2001 (8:08)

reply top Sandra.... If you where behind enemy lines with a reporter, would you.. 1.) Have them give your exact location to the TV station 2.) to the RADIO 3.) Ask that you not say anything about where you are at least till you are out of the enemies backyard. Come on.. it don't take a genus to figure this out. in WW2 this had a saying. ...L...L...sink ships.

reply by You wish 11/16/2001 (9:10)

reply top So. is this you... Waht a NUT! hahahaha... Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:23:05 From: snecchi@magazine.org Subj: To the makers of 'Trekkies' To: trekdoc@aol.com I'm quite interested in your project but I'm troubled by two aspects: First, you say that Star Trek isn't science fiction because it's about the human condition -- only people who don't know science fiction say this seriously. Science fiction isn't just Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon and SFX. The best science fiction has always been about the human condition -- H.G. Wells wrote it because he wanted to make political and social commentaries. Read Harlan Ellison, Ray Bradbury, Isaac Asimov, Frank Herbert, Ursula LeGuin, Robert Heinlein, and all the other greats -- there's nothing mutually exclusive about science fiction as a genre and stories about the human condition. Genuine science fiction isn't the empty pap put out by TV and films and never has been. Star Trek is indeed science fiction -- that's why SF fans took so much notice of it when it first came out. It was the first time TV tried to portray SF as a genre seriously and deal with the issues present in print SF for decades. And few SF fans use the term 'sci-fi.' That's a Hollywood invention. I've read SF since I was a child and have never been interested in the hardware/SFX stuff. My interest has always been focused on stories dealing with social, political, moral, religious, philosophical, ethical issues and how technology affects all of them. Second, I'm troubled by your focus on fans who wear uniforms all their lives, base their lifestyles on living Trek, et al. A dentist who wears a uniform in his office, as well as his staff. A guy who puts a uniform on his cat. I can see how this will play with non-Trek audience. Stereotyping us all. There are a very large number of us who have perfectly normal lives, don't put on uniforms (unless it's to appear in a costume contest or maybe wear one at a con -- I for one have never worn one and have no interest in doing so), and don't consider Trek so central to our lives. It would've been better to focus on a more balanced portrayal of Trek fans instead of sticking to people like the woman who went to a jury trial wearing a uniform. I'm a political journalist and editor, English teacher and researcher in the human rights field. I've traveled all over the world for many years and have been in many conflict zones. I don't have an apartment full of Trek memorabilia (though I have a few commemorative plates and collect fanzines), wear no buttons, have no Trek t-shirts or uniforms, and have a small number of photos. I'm on a couple of private Trek discussion lists online and go to cons occasionally. This skewed focus on the nuttier folks out there merely plays into the typical media stereotype and does us no service. Sandra Necchi ******************************************************************** Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:23:05 From: trekdoc@aol.com Subj: To the makers of 'Trekkies' To: snecchi@magazine.org Dear Sandra, Thanks for writing. We love to hear your feedback. Regarding the Richard Arnold quote, that Star Trek isn't science fiction. I believe he was saying that it's not LITERALLY science fiction--which would be only about science. And I'm sure he would agree with your comments about what comprises the best science fiction--the same qualities that comprise quality fiction in general. Regarding the film's perspective, the subjects profiled in the documentary span the entire spectrum of fans, from non-uniform wearing doctors, scientists, and teachers to the Trek-uniform-wearing Dentists, Jurists, mothers, and others, whom I would argue are just as 'normal' as anyone else. Why is wearing a Star Trek uniform not normal? Who gets to decide what is and isn't normal? The beauty of America is that it's a place were we're free to say and be whatever we want, as long as we don't infringe on another's right to do so. The beauty of the philosophy of Star Trek is that it is all inclusive--all races, genders, sizes, shapes, political backgrounds, etc., are equally accepted. The people in the documentary are shown as they exist, in real life, warts and all. One can never please everybody, but a documentary shows all sides of a subject. If we showed only one segment of Trek fandom, the side that somebody personally decided was 'normal,' the film would be less a documentary, and more of a propaganda piece for that viewpoint. A journalist should be aware that a 'balanced portrayal' includes ALL sides. Thanks again for writing. I enjoy discussing the subject of Trek fandom. Best, Roger Nygard TREKKIES Director

reply by You wish 11/16/2001 (9:32)

reply top Oct 7, 1998 - 10:15 - From: - snecchi@magazine.org Name: Sandra Necchi E-Mail Address: snecchi@magazine.org Website: N/A URL: N/A Hailing from from: 350 77th Street Brooklyn NY 11209 Comments: This is a WONDERFUL site!!! I'm 38 and during the 70s, I was a HUGE Apes fan, joining clubs, writing fan fiction, collecting articles and everything else I could (including that old trash can and trading cards). Because of those films, I developed a major crush on Roddy McDowall and started collecting articles on him and watching all his films. I still have a rather large scrapbook devoted just to him. Needless to say, I've been terribly upset this week at the news of his sudden death. I still am a big fan of these wonderful films and your site has delighted me so much because it's great to see that the Apes series still generates popularity among young people, some of whom weren't even around when they were first released. I thought they'd been completely forgotten and dismissed entirely by the generation after mine. You've proved me entirely wrong. As to the announced remake, I can only say that I don't look forward to it at all and expect it to be a complete waste. Your site has gorgeous graphics and is terribly informative. And funny! I've had to bookmark it, of course. But what is this reference to the Ape City Festival? Is this a fan gathering of some sort? Anyway, thanks for giving me a bit of comfort during a week that has saddened me greatly.

reply by You wish 11/16/2001 (9:40)

reply top Date: Thu Sep 11 10:17:37 1997 From: snecchi@magazine.org Subj: Re: Some comments To: Trekdoc@aol.com Dear Roger -- I was surprised and delighted to receive your response to my message! I fully agree with your points about what is 'normal' and who are we to decide who is 'normal.' I suppose that it depends on how the subjects of your film are treated - if they are treated with warmth, gentle humor and fun, yet with respect, then that's certainly a different approach than that of the mainstream media. If that is what you have done, then please accept my apologies for making assumptions about your film. I know I came off judgmental about the subjects in your film -- I admit that I sounded very condescending toward them. There are all sorts of fans I've met in fandom over the years and it is unfair to lump people in one simple category because of how they choose to live their life. It's simply my sensitivity over the years to how Trek fans are perceived by the mainstream--it may have caused me to go overboard in my response. Your reply was very thoughtful. I look forward to seeing your film. Thanks again. Sandra Necchi

reply by Sandra 11/16/2001 (10:11)

reply top I see I've gotten people furious with my inflammatory comment re the US military. It is an opinion that is shared by many around the world: The US prefers to bomb safely from on high rather than to risk its men on the ground. Instead, it prefers to use proxy armies and have others do the fighting and dying. Since WWII, the US military has been in wars *only* against poor countries with rag-tag armies, using its superior firepower, dropping more bombs on Vietnam than were dropped by BOTH the Allies and the Axis powers *combined* in all of WWII, and so on. All the US military seems to do in the post-war world is fight against weaker people. Hardly a test of American military strength. In addition, before 9/11, the US military had not fought any war to protect American freedom or American safety since the War of 1812 when the British invaded. The only exception to that may be WWII since some historians have argued that the German Nazis did have their eyes on the US after they conquered Europe. Yes, American soldiers themselves are quite brave and committed and 57,000 of them died needlessly in a stupid, senseless war in Vietnam. But since then, all the US seems to do is bomb poor countries and use others to do its fighting. As to the person who dregged up those 'trekkie' posts, those have been used against me once before on another public board I usually partiticipate only on private lists because public boards tend to have the worst of humanity on them with some sane voices enduring all the nonsense. This is the only other public board I've ever participated in, ever. And I'm already sorry for it. That 'trekkie' stuff is something I have to endure thru no fault of my own. It's there on the net, I can't get rid of it. No, Sir, that is *not* me, tho of course I know you won't believe my denial. I know the person who wrote those posts---a man with whom I haven't spoken in 6 years. I am not the only one on the net that has suffered from this sort of name-taking fraud, however. I wish I could do something about it but that's the free-for-all hi-tech age that we live in. Finally, I know all too well what it is like to be subjected to bombing, what it is like to witness the aftermath of a village torn into shreds by the terrorist likes of the contra army and the Central American militaries. Five of my relatives were permanently exiled from Brazil in the wake of the US-backed coup there in 1964, 3 of them were executed by the military. Two of them who had to leave the country soon committed suicide. Two years ago, the man who was the closest thing I ever had to a father, a dear uncle, was gunned down by a paramilitary off-duty police officer in Sao Paulo. The man had been trained at the American School of the Americas in Georgia. I travelled and studied in the Middle East throughout the 80s and early 90s. I know this region. I am no cloistered laptop bombardier like so many of you.

reply by andy 11/16/2001 (12:30)

reply top Sandra, you are a wonderful person and those old e mails you didn't even write have no power over you unless you let them. Who cares!! Stay on this forum we need people. like you. This Barb character is a useful foil to keep debate stirred up. If she didn't exist we would have to create her. Pay no attention to her excesses. She's just a reminder of the real world 'out there' so we don't get all swept up in just talking to ourselves. 'Above average people talk about ideas. Average people talk about events. Below average people talk about people'

reply by Sandra 11/16/2001 (12:46)

reply top >>Sandra.... If you where behind enemy lines with a reporter, would you.. 1.) Have them give your exact location to the TV station 2.) to the RADIO 3.) Ask that you not say anything about where you are at least till you are out of the enemies backyard. Come on.. it don't take a genus to figure this out. in WW2 this had a saying. ...L...L...sink ships. >> Your post makes no sense. The European, Canadian, Australian, Latin American, Russian press are full of reports and analyses that have absolutely nothing to do with giving secret military information. They're providing serious debates about the military campaign, about foreign policy decisions and the rest. What does that have to do with giving away military secrets to the enemy? That's an assumption you're making: that hard-headed, skeptical, accurate, non-biased reporting in a war means giving out military information to the enemy. That's a sweeping leap in logic and it's the sort of nonsense that the Bush adminstration uses to shut people up and squelch dissent. There's a difference between being a journalist and being a mouthpiece for the gov't. That's what we have now in the US.

reply by Sandra 11/16/2001 (13:57)

reply top Andy, thank you for your kind post. And you're right about Barb. I liked your last line re 'below average people talk about people.' True enuf. It's true, I've used words like 'idiot' and 'ignorant.' At least I back up my posts with information, analysis, argument. All Barb has offered is insults.

reply by Barb 11/16/2001 (20:37)

reply top All I've offered is 'insults?' All you've done is insult many people on the board calling their postings 'moronic,' 'idiotic,' 'ignorant.' You talk about imperialism and your hatred for it but you typify imperialism -- you think only people who think 'like you' should be on this board. That is the exact opposite of what the USA is about. PEACE. I don't like fighting.