Arabs are torturing children
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AuthorTopic: Arabs are torturing children
topic by
John Sweeney of the BBC
6/23/2002 (18:45)
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By John Sweeney
BBC correspondent in Iraq

The star witness against the government of Iraq hobbled into the room, her legs braced with clumsy metal callipers. 'Anna' had been tortured two years ago. She is now four years old.

Her father, Ali, is a thick-set Iraqi who used to work for Saddam's psychopathic son, Uday. Some time after the bungled assassination of Uday, Ali fell under suspicion.
Saddam's secret police have been accused of torturing children


He fled north, to the Kurdish safe haven policed by Western fighter planes, but leaving his wife and daughter behind in Baghdad.

So the secret police came for his wife. Where is he? They tortured her. And when she didn't break, they tortured his daughter.

'When did you last see your father? Has he phoned? Has he been in contact?' They half-crushed the toddler's feet.

Now, she doesn't walk, she hobbles, and Ali fears that Saddam's men have crippled his daughter for life. So Ali talked to us.

I have been to Baghdad a number of times. Being in Iraq is like creeping around inside someone else's migraine. The fear is so omnipresent you could almost eat it. No one talks.

So listening to Ali speak freely was a revelation. He is not exactly a contender to be the next Archbishop of Canterbury.

He has the heft of an enforcer. He told me that he had tortured for the regime. But I don't think he was lying to us.

'Faked funerals'

Ali talked about the paranoid frenzy that rules Baghdad - the tortures, the killings, the corruption, the crazy gangster violence of Saddam and his two sons.

And the faking of the mass baby funerals.

You may have seen them on TV. Small white coffins parading through the streets of Baghdad on the roofs of taxis, an angry crowd of mourners, condemning Western sanctions for killing the children of Iraq.



They used to collect children's bodies and put them in freezers for two, three or even six or seven months

Usefully, the ages of the dead babies - 'three days old', 'four days old' - are written in English on the coffins. I wonder who did that.

Ali gave us the inside track on the racket. There aren't enough dead babies around. So the regime stores them for a mass funeral.

He said that he was friends with a taxi driver - he gave his name - whose son had a position in the regime.

Ali continued, he told me that he had to go to Najaf - a town 160km (100 miles) from Baghdad - in order to bring children's bodies from various freezers there, and that the smell was unbearable.

They used to collect children's bodies and put them in freezers for two, three or even six or seven months - God knows - until the smell got unbearable.

Then, they arrange the mass funerals. The logic being, the more dead babies, the better for Saddam. That way, he can weaken public support in the West for sanctions.

That means that parents who have lost a baby can't bury it until the regime says so.

So how could it be that people would put up with this sickening exploitation of grief?

A murder story

Ali told another story. He had seen Uday kill with his own eyes. This was some years ago, before the assassination attempt left Saddam's oldest son half-paralysed and impotent.

Uday's lust is famous in Baghdad. He wanted a woman who played tennis at Baghdad's Sports Club and he and Ali went round to the club.


A witness saw Saddam Hussein's son, Uday, murder another man

As Uday was turning into the car park, a tennis ball came over the fence and bounced against the car of the woman he desired.

The tennis player came into the car park to retrieve the ball, apologised to the woman. Maybe there was a bit of flirting - that does happen at tennis courts, even in England.

From his car Uday watched the two of them. Enraged, he took out a wooden cosh and beat the tennis player's brains out.

And then - get this - a few days later, the dead man's relatives apologised to Uday for the distress their son had caused him.

Incredible? I don't think so.

In northern Iraq - the only part of the country where people can speak freely - we met six other witnesses who had direct experience of child torture, including another of Saddam's enforcers - now in a Kurdish prison - who told us that an interrogator could do anything:

'We could make a kebab out of the child if we wanted to.' And then he chuckled.


Angry crowds of mourners condemn the West's sanctions

In that environment, with that background noise of fear, it is not impossible to imagine that the government of Iraq could have conned the world, inventing numbers of dead babies that the gullible - and that includes the United Nations - accept as reliable.

While we were in the north of Iraq, the chairman of the Great Britain Iraq Society, Labour MP George Galloway, was in Baghdad.

He popped up on Iraqi TV and bared his soul. 'When I hear the word Iraq,' he said, 'I hear someone calling my name.'

I don't. When I hear the word Iraq, I hear a tortured child, screaming.
reply by
none
6/23/2002 (19:47)
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I hate these fucking arab bastards.

They are pondscum and deserve to be exterminated like the vermin that they are.

Too bad we didn't finish the job in the Crusades.

reply by
R. Zuercher
6/23/2002 (20:28)
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Israel is using Palestinian Boys' Organs!
________________________

Organ Buyer Moshe Tati

Moshe was 43 years old, and he was dying, and not one of his family members was a suitable match for a kidney donation. So he called the broker.

Moshe lives in Israel, which happens to be one of the more active nations in the international organ-trafficking market. The market, which is completely illegal, is so complex and well organized that a single transaction often crosses three continents: a broker from Los Angeles, say, matches an Italian with kidney failure to a seller in Jordan, for surgery in Istanbul. [...]

The sale of human organs, whether from a living person or a cadaver, is against the law in virtually every country (Iran is perhaps the only exception) and has been condemned by all of the world's medical associations. [...]

Yet in Israel and a handful of other nations, including India, Turkey, China, Russia and Iraq, organ sales are conducted with only a scant nod toward secrecy. In Israel, there is even tacit government acceptance of the practice — the national health-insurance program covers part, and sometimes all, of the cost of brokered transplants. [...]

Paying for an organ has become so routine in Israel that there have been instances in which a patient has elected not to accept the offer of a kidney donation from a well-matched relative. 'Why risk harm to a family member?' one patient told me. Instead, these patients have decided that purchasing a kidney from someone they've never met — in almost all cases someone who is impoverished and living in a foreign land — is a far more palatable option.

I can get you a kidney immediately,' said the broker whom Moshe Tati called. 'All I need is the money.' Then he quoted a price: $145,000, cash, paid in advance. [...]

Desire for a living donor is another reason why dialysis patients often prefer to purchase a kidney and circumvent national programs, where legally transplanted organs are almost always from cadavers. An Israeli kidney buyer named Avriham, who used the same broker as Moshe Tati and traveled to Eastern Europe, described this notion in his own terms: 'Why should I wait years just to have a kidney from someone who was in a car accident, pinned in his car for hours, then in miserable condition in the I.C.U. for days, and only then, after all that trauma, have part of him put inside me? That organ is not going to be any good! Or, worse, I could get the organ of an elderly person, a person who died of a stroke or an aneurysm — that kidney is all used up! It's better to take a kidney from a healthy young man who can also benefit from the money. Where I went, families were so poor they didn't even have bread to eat. The money I gave was a gift equal to the gift I received. I insisted on seeing my donor. He was young and very healthy, very strong. It was perfect, just what I was hoping for. A dream kidney.' [...]

When Moshe's plane landed in Istanbul, there was no need to clear customs, no one asking for passports. 'Everything was already taken care of,' Moshe says. 'The organization was like clockwork.' Moshe and the other three patients were driven to a hospital — An old hospital,' Moshe says, 'not modern, but very clean' — and their family and friends were taken to a hotel. [...]

'As I was being prepared for surgery,' Moshe says, 'I saw the man who was giving me his kidney. I just glimpsed him briefly. He was in an operating room across from me. We never spoke; when I saw him, he was already asleep, at the beginning of his surgery. [...]


Drawbacks of Selling Off One's Body Piecemeal

Scheper-Hughes remains unconvinced that selling a kidney is actually a low-risk activity. She says she feels that the chief tenet of the Hippocratic Oath — do no harm — is being violated. 'In these deals you are certainly harming someone else,' she says. 'You are harming the sellers.' The argument that the slight harm to the sellers is more than offset by the lifesaving potential on the other end of the transaction is also troubling to Scheper-Hughes. 'I call this 'increasing the net good,'' she says. 'Is this really the kind of world we want to live in — one based on utilitarian ethics in which net gain to one relatively privileged population allows them to claim property rights over the bodies of the disadvantaged?'

Further, she points out, every study demonstrating that kidney donation does not compromise health has been conducted in a wealthy nation. 'It is not exactly clear that poor people can really live safely with one kidney,' she says. People who sell their kidneys, she adds, usually live in abject conditions and face greater-than-average threats to their health, including poor diets, low-quality drinking water and increased risk of infectious disease, all of which can easily compromise the remaining kidney.

The actual kidney-removal surgery may also not be as gentle as advertised. Even Michael Friedlaender admits that removal surgery is a more painful procedure than transplantation. After a surgeon has carved through skin, fat and several layers of muscle, getting at a kidney sometimes necessitates the partial extraction of the 12th rib. Short-term complications have been documented in nearly one in five kidney-donation surgeries. [...]

There is further concern about the notion that sellers are making an autonomous choice. Lawrence Cohen, an associate professor of medical anthropology at Berkeley and the other founder of Organs Watch, has done much of his fieldwork in India. He recently studied 30 kidney sellers in the city of Chennai. Twenty-seven of them were women. Some of their husbands, Cohen learned, made it clear that if the men had to do heavy labor, it was only fair that the women contribute to the family income by selling a kidney. Cohen observed that in none of the cases did selling an organ significantly improve the family's fortunes in the long run. 'If only I had three kidneys,' one of the women told Cohen, 'then I could sell two and things might be better.'

'Nobody seems concerned about the sellers,' Scheper-Hughes says. 'The buyers are supported by doctors, but no one represents the sellers. Nobody solicits their opinions. In this market, they have become an invisible population. Someone needs to listen to them. What do they have to say?' [...]
______________________________________________________

Go and look at the pictures; use the this Link!

http://www.ukar.org/asper/asper01.html


R. Zuercher
reply by
R Felt
6/23/2002 (21:57)
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Whoever 'none' is, you should know that if you transferred that hatred over to Americans and Jews you would be experiencing just exactly the kind of hate Islamist Terrorists feel before they slam planes into large buildings. I think it's disgusting and if that's your attitude then you deserve to live in a world rife with terrorism.
reply by
Jewish American
6/23/2002 (23:52)
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Ron. I agree with your comments to none. That is just more of the same idiotic overgeneralization that gets the world in to these messes.
The same goes to all of you people who say the same thing about Jewish people.

The level of hatred towards people in this forum is alarming.
I had thought we had progressed farther as a world than this, particularly given the lessons of the Holocaust, but seeing what happened in Bosnia, and Rawawand in the last decade and seeing how people are using the same warmed over anti-Jewish propoganda (with a new Israeli spin) I see we really haven't progressed much at all.
Hopefully America can, as we did in WW II, play a crucial role in leading the world to a more sane and just place.
Arabs and Jews need to learn to live together and to accept one another. Neither group is going to disappear without irrepreable harm to the other, so lets all use a little enlightened self-interest here. Please.
reply by
The Angry Clam
6/24/2002 (7:58)
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If U want to stop the high levels of hate around the world there is a very simple solution. U start by initiating social and political justice to all people and all races, then make incorrigible countries like Israel OBEY International Law!

Sometimes verbal 'hate'sessions can be a healthy thing. For too long we have been bowing and scrapping to those fucking social engineers which rammed Political correctness down our throats until we bled. If people have pent up anger and frustration bottled up inside and issues which affect their lives are never addressed ,they always get labelled as social misfits for daring to show their displeasure.When this happens you get the problems magnifying themselves 100 fold.

I say give Sharon and Yasser a set of duelling pistols and have it out at 100 paces! Winner takes ALL.
reply by
Urban Legend
6/24/2002 (9:32)
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The stealing of human organs is an Urban Legend. I think I've already posted something about this topic so I will summarize.

The organ stealing Urban Legend. It started in the USA with the whole kidney stealing story. Here is a typical story: guy meets hot woman in bar, woman drugs guy, guy wakes up in a tub of ice next to a phone that says call 911, he does and finds out that one of his kidneys removed.

The story developed and spread. The third world version seems to be that of Westerners stealing organs from children. The hysteria resulting from the rumour was so bad in Guatamala that a German woman from an adoption agency was attacked by an angry mob.

The difficulty of matching an organ such as a kidney to a donar recipient, Transplant Ontario advises, for instance, that minimum donor/recipient testing takes approximately 12 hours and that matches must be near perfect for transplant to have any chance of success. Which is why REAL doctors recomend a realitive as a donor. The unlikliehood that a crime ring would be able to access the medical testing technology (such as DNA matching) to make such a process viable. It is also very difficult to transport organs as well without the proper equipment.

There is more but i am tired of typing so here is the link: http://www.ulrc.com.au/html/report.asp?CaseFile=ULRR0025&Page=1&View=Request&Collection=Medical

this is the right link this time, sorry if anyone went to the bad one, which turned out to be some fitness center or something (oops my bad :D )
reply by
Mob
6/24/2002 (9:46)
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Piss off Urban Legend. We don't care if it is true or not. It is good propoganda to use against Israel.

If you don't like it, get the fuck off MER and go to some ZioNazi website.
reply by
Urban Legend
6/24/2002 (11:06)
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You just insulted this site Mob, is everything here propaganda? I guess the 'Zionazis' as you call them must be posting the truth on their sites then?

I was only pointing out some bad information. Freedom of speech, chill out ok?
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
6/24/2002 (13:26)
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Re: Jewish American; 'people are using the same warmed over anti-Jewish propoganda.'

For 3,00 years you Jews have created your own hell--who likes you--answer that one for the sites participants-OK?

Murdering civilian's with tanks, jets and helicopter gunships armed with deadly hellfire/TOW antitank missiles has made the Zionist Jews of Israel the low lives of the planet--can you rebutt that one for us in 500 words or less?

So go home, light your Menorah, put on your velvet yamaulka and pray to Jehovah for forgiveness for the sins of your atheist Zionist thugs and murdering brethern in Israel and the territories have committed against the downtrodden Palestinian's and then give them 33% of the Holocaust Industries annual take--and give them a promissory note for the remaining $500 billion you Jews have stolen from them!

TheAZCowBoy,

PS: Don't come here preaching to us and giving us your 'Jewish' facts--we see the record as you Jews have created it--and we see Israel's rap sheet on Amnesty Int'l, UN Human Rights Commission and other sites...
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
6/24/2002 (13:32)
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Message to MOB:

Hey clean up your act. There are enough 'truths' about the JewZies to sink the US 7th fleet---there is NO REASON to fabricate lies to explain these Zionist animals.

The have sunk to the lowest levals of human behavior on their own---just follow the bloody trail of the LIKUDNIK gang-of-thugs.

TAC,