Question of AZ's true loyalties
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AuthorTopic: Question of AZ's true loyalties
topic by
John Calvin
6/26/2002 (14:48)
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I think this is an important question which occurred to me some time ago but which I recently broached in response to 'God Bless Mark Bruzonsky'.

Does the Cowboy's diatribe against Jews, and his undiscriminating, epithetic use of the term 'zionist' represent a sincere or effective argument for the Palestinian cause and in the interest of obtaining peace? Is it possible that he is actually representing the interests of the ruling party in Israel as a kind of double agent, masquerading as a Palestinian sympathizer but ranting in such a fashion as to bring great discredit on their cause. Furthermore, his posting often provoke equally enraged, bigoted and bloodthirsty responses from the other side- ADAM might be an example- thus ensuring that instead of providing the aspect of a civilized, sensible and constructive dialogue, this site is rendered a relatively ineffective organ of American crackpotism.

Whether AZ is a bons fide agent of Isreal, acting entirely on his own as if he were an agent of Israel or is just a mixed up person whose postings have an effect which might be very gratifying to an agent of Israel, seems a question of small important. At any rate, it seems unlikely that exposing him as such will change anything on this site which leads me to conclude that God is blessing Mark Bruzonsky with great trials and tributaltions.
reply by
truth
6/26/2002 (14:59)
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Well I actually thought the same thing at one time .. especially of wisso as well .. but in AZ case .. he/she sounds way well informed to be just your typicall jew hater .. and every now and then he DOES show an ability to separate zionists from jews.. I guess it would be a mystery for us to ponder.
One thing is for sure though .. considering barb and adam and such people in this forum .. I think AZ does provide a balance :)
reply by
Mark
6/26/2002 (15:03)
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Even if a Jew is not a Zionist, if push comes to shove; that is where he will run.
reply by
Ashlar
6/26/2002 (15:10)
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John Calvin, the politically correct spineless leftie.

I remember when you wouldn't hear a bad word said about the 'beyond criticism Jews'.

Having no foresight of your own, they had to butcher and pillage before you the 'blind little pinkie toady' thought you better raise your pure voice of dissent.
And shake your fist obediently.

Jewry is having a deadly reckoning this century.
reply by
truth
6/26/2002 (15:20)
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Well .. I guess this is going to be foreign to me but i am really getting fed up the use of the word JEW and JEWRY .. judiasm is a relegion .. it is not a race or a cult or a financial or social belonging. You could be anti zionst .. or anti talmudian .. or anti capitalistic even .. but you can not be anti jewish .. unless you are anti 'one god'. Racism is not what MER is about .. it is a white european thing ... does not belong to the middle east ( except by descendants of kharz tribes who happened to be white MASCARADING as israelites now in palestine) and it sure should not belong to middleeast.org.
reply by
Ashlar
6/26/2002 (15:36)
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If they are not a
race, why do they have hooked noses and beady eyes then?

A genetic physical trait.

Did you know 74% of Jews in Hollywood have nose jobs.

Jewry is having a deadly reckoning this century.

Poor little Jews,they are so sympathetic to their neighbours.

You can be anti-muslim ask Bush...so why not anti-jewish?
reply by
truth
6/26/2002 (15:59)
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Reseacrh the % of israelites ( semites like arabs) to the declared JEWS today and you will know the difference of a race versus a relegion..
and just because some one is anti muslim does not give muslims a license to be racists!!! the first thing in islam is ' there is no race better than an other except for the obedience ( the actual word used means avoiding god's anger) of GOD'.

Every race has bad apples it is only human. Every theory has exceptions .. every idiology could be enforced stupidly with DAMAGING results.. most of the human inventions start out noble and good .. it is the practise that gets us...
even zionism as a concept .. it does sound noble ..but then ask the mutilated bodies of deir yassin and the imported south american so called jews in today's west bank.
Relegions to suffered the same way .. I do not think any one has it 100 % rigt today ..but I am sure some of us have it much closer to the truth than others.
A man who beleives that his relegion requires him to kill the innocent or despise his fellow humans for reasons other than THEIR OWN BEHAVIOUR.. is seriously flawed in my opinion.
In that manner i think the generalization than comes with racism is forbidden in any fair minded PRACTISE of ALL relegions.
go to google.com and look for pages containing 'israel shahak'.
reply by
interesting
6/26/2002 (16:52)
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Ashlar, Judaism is a religion. Anyone can become Jewish, no matter who they are. Thats why there are black, white, Asian, etc. Jews.

Eastern Europeans have hooked noses and beady eyes. A lot of Jews (the Ashkenazi [sp]) are form Eastern and Central Europe. That does not mean that all Jews have hooked noses and beady eyes. I am Jewish and I have brown hair, green eyes, and a small nose. My sister has a curved (or hooked nose as you call it) nose, blond hair and blue eyes (neither of us have squinty eyes and neither do my parents) And furthermore, my parents are both converts to Reform Judaism. Do all Christians have blond hair and blue eyes? Are all Muslims Arab? I don't think so. Your arguement is ridiculous.

No it is not alright to be anti-Jewish or Anti-Muslim. It is not alright to be anti-any religion, even Santanism. Everyone has the right to worship God(s) in his or her own way as long as they don't hurt anyone else (no human sacrifices or anything).

Truth, you are right about Zionism not being bad in principle. However, any extremeist can twist any ideology to suite their own purpose. Stalin did it to Communism and Osama Bin laden and his ilk did it to Islam. And the settlers and their ilk did it to Zionism.
reply by
Toby
6/26/2002 (17:32)
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'Stalin did it to Communism'

Don't you mean the Jews who invented communism.
reply by
truth
6/26/2002 (17:45)
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for the record i am very very ANTI satanism.!!!
and anti michiavilism
and anti facism
and anti talmudian from what I read of it.
and anti anyone whothinks that any man made god would do ..
I just do not think I have the right to kill some one who does not beleive in god unless they happen to be teaching that to my children or seducing my wife or robbing my money or killing my fellow god fearing humans!
and I do beleive the state of israel and its supporters in the us and world wide matches all my critiria big time.!
reply by
... Resources...
6/26/2002 (17:53)
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Go to.. (1).. hoffman-info.com ..(2).. jerualem.indymedia.org ..(3).. pmwatch.org ..(4).. palestinechronicle.com ..(5)Z.. nilemedia.com
reply by
Ashlar
6/26/2002 (17:54)
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Stop hiding behind religion.
A negro who wants to follow the religion of judaism is still an African. They are not real Jews as well you know.This is why you Jews want to destroy every individual trait between races so as to hide yourselves.
Take Streisand and Speilberg, now they have the characteristics of real Jews. They look like brother and sister.

Also their mental traits are unique.Cunning,greedy and devious to the extreme.

No it is not alright to be anti-Jewish or Anti-Muslim. It is not alright to be anti-any religion.

Well you want to tell Sharon and Bush that.
Also half of America who now want to blow the Arabs of the face of the earth. As well you know.

What do they call them...oh yes 'Ragheads'.

Left wing deluded crap you spill, you know damn well there is a divide building between east and west because of 'Religion' the fantasy demagogue of the mind.
And who is causing it again? the Jews as usual.



reply by
truth
6/26/2002 (18:14)
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How smart you have to be in order to beleive that what you might consider a racial TRAIT is nothing but but an idiology that gets propagated by greed!!! how many non jews do you know that are more PRO ISRAEL than most jews????
How many corrupt wall street CEO's that are not jews ??
When did the jews own 100 % of any thing anywhere? it is not the race stupid... it is a conscious decesion that people take based on wordly convictions!!!
Ashar or what ever your name is .. your crap is really equal in quality to that adam felollow.!!
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
6/26/2002 (19:04)
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I guess you missed one of my early posts John.

In it I talked about how my people here in North America had been the original Palestinian's of N.America.

How the European's had come to murder, maim, disposses, rape my people, plunder the land and make a mess of the environment. How they brought small pox, syphills, barbed wire, the art of scalping, and a myriad of mieries to my people.

So you see, I can 'really' sympathize with the Paly's.

I got a good education, became an F-15 fighter pilot and was sent to the Middle East to teach Jews how to fly-fight & win!

BIG MISTAKE!

Today, the Jews have a formidable enemy in theAZCowBoy. I am informed, bright, tough as nails, I am very military--but most of all I am very fair.

This is why I support the Paly's, warts and all, because they are victims--and I hate to see victims suffering from the weapons I taught those Jewish bastards how to use effectively!

TheAZCowBoy,

TAC: A frikin Jew, NEVER!
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
6/26/2002 (19:07)
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Re: 'God Bless Mark Bruzonsky.'


TAC: The fact I can praise a decent Jew 'proves' I am not anti-Semitic and appreciate 'decent' people of all colors or creeds.

But indeed very anti-Zionist!

TAC,
reply by
John Calvin
6/26/2002 (20:47)
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The question is whether , under the present circumstances, in the context of this discussion site, the most intensely fanatical supporters of Israeli's present policy would have any objection to you going on the way you do,inflaming hatred towards jews, proclaiming the complete destruction of Israel,calling Sharon and his gang of religious fanatics zionists as if they should be mentioned in the same breath with the founders of zionism and the State f Israel? Of course not. That nutty polemicists like you cheer at the death of every Jew is a great advantage to their propganda efforts and distracts from the sort of serious arguements and debates that could actually change people's minds and help the Palestinians get their rights!
reply by
Jewish American
6/26/2002 (23:50)
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John,

Excellent point. And while they are not clearly as vocal or extreme, the same can be said for those who make anti-Arab generalizations. Sometimes I wonder if THEY are actually plants of the PA intentionally trying to make Jews look like extremists.

This is the most sophisticated and enlightening conversation I've seen in this MER forum since I arrived last month.

Bravo!

To Mr. TAC - I'd like to say three things to you:
1) I am sorry and saddened about what your native american ancestors suffered through as a result of our european ancestors immigration to this land.
2) I understand how you must be able to empathize and sympathize with the Palestinian people as a result.
3) I strongly encourage you to support the Palestinian people but at the same time not try to harm the Jewish people. While there are extremists in both camps, as John Calvin points out, you are doing a terrible disservice to both people. Sometimes it is hard to modify one's position after one has gone to the extremes that you have. I would like to encourage you to make a brave effort to examine how this conflict has brought out the worst part of yourself. Recognize it. Commit to fight against that part of yourself, and then resume your quest for justice for all people in the world, but this time in a more authentically positive way.

Thank you.
reply by
Lynette
6/27/2002 (2:05)
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Mark stated:

Even if a Jew is not a Zionist, if push comes to shove; that is where he will run.
....................................................................................................


Ariel Sharon is counting on it. Read this:

These coming words of Sharon are addressed to the whole comunity of politicians of the 21st century, because they have accepted him as a member of their society. They are all cited from his intervew by Amos Oz, which was published in the Israeli newspaper Davar on December 17, 1982.

---- 'We shall start another war, kill and destroy more and more, until they will have had enough. And do you know why it is all worth it? Because it seems that this war has made us more unpopular among the so-called civilised world...'

---- 'The destruction of Eyn Hilwe (and it's a pity we did not wipe out that hornet's nest completely!), the healthy bombardment of Beirut and that tiny massacre (can you call 500 Arabs a massacre?) in their camps which we should have committed with our own delicate hands rather than let the Phalangists do it, all these good deeds finally killed the bullshit talk about a unique people and of being a light upon the nations...'

---- 'I personally don't want to be any better than Khomeini or Brezhnev or Ghadafi or Assad or Mrs. Thatcher, or even Harry Truman who killed half a million Japanese with two fine bombs. I only want to be smarter than they are, quicker and more efficient, not better or more beautiful than they are. Tell me, do the baddies of this world have a bad time? If anyone tries to touch them, the evil men cut his hands and legs off. They hunt and catch whatever they feel like eating. They don't suffer from indigestion and are not punished by Heaven. I want Israel to join that club. Maybe the world will then at last begin to fear me instead of feeling sorry for me. Maybe they will start to tremble, to fear my madness instead of admiring my nobility. Thank God for that. Let them tremble, let them call us a mad state. Let them understand that we are a wild country, dangerous to our surroundings, not normal, that we might go crazy if one of our children is murdered - just one! That we might go wild and burn all the oil fields in the Middle East! If anything would happen to your child, God forbid, you would talk like I do. Let them be aware in Washington, Moscow, Damascus and China that if one of our ambassadors is shot, or even a consul or the most junior embassy official, we might start World War Three just like that!'

---- 'Let me tell me [sic] what is the most important thing, the sweetest fruit of the war in Lebanon: It is that now they don't just hate Israel. Thanks to us, they now also hate all those Feinschmecker Jews in Paris, London, New York, Frankfurt and Montreal, in all their holes. At last they hate all these nice Yids, who say they are different from us, that they are not Israeli thugs, that they are different Jews, clean and decent.'

---- 'The gentiles have always felt sick of the Yids and their conscience, and now the Yids will have only one option: to come home, all of them, fast, to install thick steel doors, to build a strong fence, to have submachine guns positioned at every corner of their fence here and to fight like devils against anyone who dares to make a sound in this region. And if anyone even raises his hand against us we'll take away half his land and burn the other half, including the oil. We might use nuclear arms. We'll go on until he no longer feels like it...'

If you don't do anything to stop the madness of this man, your silence will make you his partner! Then, don't ever dare to say 'But I didn't know!'

reply by
interesting
6/27/2002 (8:36)
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You are sick you know that? if an African is Jewsih he is a real Jew. Because Judaism is a RELIGION NOT A RACE. why is this so hard to comprehend? Are you saying that because my parents are converts that doesn't make me a real Jew? I am offended.

Streisand and Speilburg are both decended of Ashkenazi Jews, of course they look a like. A lot of Irish people have red hair and freckles. Are all people with red and freckles Irish. Acording to you I guess so. Maybe they are their own race and there is some sort of Irish conspiracy? How do you think the Kennedys came to power. (dumbass)

The divison between East and West, have you taken a look at the Crusades, cased by Christians, Muslims are still bitter about that even today...and they were not caused by Jews. But hey, in you little fantasy world everything bad is caused by Jews so I doubt you will listen to anything I have said.

Your message from the real world is brought to you by: Interesting

PS: AZ you said you were and F-16 pilot in one post, an F-4 in another, and now you are an F-15 pilot. Which is it?
reply by
interesting
6/27/2002 (8:57)
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Toby, did you read Animal Farm? Good book, tells the story of the Russian Revolution but sets it on a farm. It is a short book and very educational.

Yes Lenin was raised Jewish, but he became Atheist. However, it was Stalin who perverted his dream of equality.
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
6/27/2002 (11:07)
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Re: A lot of Jews (the Ashkenazi) are from Eastern and Central Europe.

INTERESTING, did you know than genetic studies at Tel Aviv university have confirmed that the AshkeNAZI Jew is not even a real Jew, hook nosed or otherwise?

Zionism is a racist cult that will destroy the decent Jews of the world much as Nazism destroyed the world's pereption of a decent German.

TAC,
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
6/27/2002 (11:13)
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Re: AZ you said you were an F-16 pilot in one post, an F-4 in another, and now you are an F-15 pilot. Which is it?

Depends what year ur talking about.

In 1962 it was the F-104!

TAC,
reply by
Amy
6/27/2002 (13:12)
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Put together a 'peace-promoting coalition' including a few American Jews and let them try to go to Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, etc., and see how far they get.

No Israeli or American, Jewish or non-Jewish, who has an Israeli visa in his or her passport is allowed entry into any Muslim country except Egypt, Jordan and Turkey.

Israel acts out of legitimate security concerns. These countries do not; they act out of hatred, pure and simple. Where is the outrage about that?
reply by
interesting
6/27/2002 (16:21)
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ok, I just wondered, a friend of mine tried to talk to, thought your were an F-16 pilot and you ignored him. It kinda irritated him.


Anyway, Judaism is not based through genetics, even you AZ could become Jewish if you converted.;)

Ashkenazi (sp) Jews are merely Jews who are, or decended from, Eastern and Central European stock. And the only way someone can't be a real Jew is if they convert or say they are Jewish and don't follow the tenents of the religion (I guess that part would apply to the extreme Zionists).
reply by
interesting
6/27/2002 (16:25)
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Amy:
Syria and Lebanon: Ummmm...if you were Jewish you probably wouldn't want to go there anyway.

Saudi Arabia: Nobody can enter the country unless they have permission from the government.I think this applys to everyone but it might be easier if you are Islamic going on the holy pilgramige to Mecca and Medina. Doesn't sound fair but if that's how they want to run things...(shrug)
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
6/29/2002 (20:14)
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Re: AMY rants; 'Israel
acts out of legitimate security concerns. These countries do not; they act out of hatred, pure and simple. Where is the outrage about that?'

TAC: The outrage is that a Zionist thief and claims jumper can steal 77% of your nation and then try to 'Jew' you out of the remaining 23%!

I guess you know very little about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, huh Amy?

Better get into something else: 'How 'bout the sex life of the Zionist Piranha's of the Amazon river?' :))

TAC,
reply by
Scorekeeper
6/30/2002 (10:30)
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Just checked out this game.

OK here's the score:

John Calvin - 5 points for some well thought out points.

Ashlar - 2 Yellow Cards for making assinine commentaries.

Truth - 1 Yellow Card for making poorly thought through commentary.

Jewish American - 2 points for reaching out to the AZCowboy and trying to open up dialgoue.

Interesting - 2 points for interesting comments.

AZCowboy - 2 points for continuing to prove John Calvin's point that you are a jerk.
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
6/30/2002 (11:07)
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Hey SCORE KEEPER; 'I do not accept criticisms made by Zionist Jews or Israel apologists.'

TAC: I see that gay Zionist tranvestite ADAM and retired topless dancer 'floppy discs' SoulJah, a rabid Israel apologist were omitted from your score card!

see what I mean about you pro-Israel low lives? So what else is new in your 1/2 acre of Zionist corruption?

Or as my ole wing commander said to me once:

'Opinions are like assholes--everyone has one!'

So BUZZ OFF sucker!
reply by
Scorekeeper
6/30/2002 (11:13)
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Adam? Souljah?

I don't see any posts by these people.

Another 2 yellow cards to AZCowboy.

One for trying to make the scorekeeper grade someone not in the game and another one for calling Scorekeeper a jerk.

reply by
TheAZCowBoy
6/30/2002 (12:35)
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See, my Wing Commander was right--YOU ARE AN ASS HOLE!

TAC,
reply by
Scorekeeper
6/30/2002 (14:14)
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Takes one to no one.

Still no points for the mentally challenged guy from Arizona.

Phoenix, Tuscon, or Flagstaff? Which city should I avoid?