A serious look at the fatalaties - both Palestinian and Israeli
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AuthorTopic: A serious look at the fatalaties - both Palestinian and Israeli
topic by
Another John
7/7/2002 (16:42)
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A just-completed study at the International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism (ICT) at the Interdisciplinary Center in Herzliya provides an in-depth look at the fatalities on both sides of the current Palestinian/Israeli conflict. Based on thorough research using Palestinian and Israeli open sources, the study provides a breakdown of those killed by age, sex, and combatant status. The results lead to some surprising conclusions.

Combatants, Noncombatants, and Responsibility

Around 1450 Palestinians have been killed since the start of the “al-Aqsa Intifada”, compared to more than 525 Israelis. Numbers like these are used to create an image of lopsided slaughter, with Israel cast as the villain. But such numbers distort the true picture: They lump combatants in with noncombatants, suicide bombers with innocent civilians, and report Palestinian “collaborators” murdered by their own compatriots as if they had been killed by Israel.
More meaningful figures show that Israel is responsible for around 568 Palestinian noncombatant deaths, while Palestinians have killed more than 420 Israeli noncombatants. Over 50 percent of the Palestinians killed were actively involved in fighting – and this does not include stone-throwers or “unknowns”. And Palestinians are directly responsible for the deaths of at least 185 of their own number – one out of every eight Palestinians killed.
On the Israeli side, almost 80 percent of those killed have been noncombatants. While Israelis account for only about 25 percent of the total “Intifada” fatalities, they represent about 40 percent of the noncombatant victims.


Breakdown by Gender
Women and girls account for 30 percent of all Israelis killed in the conflict, and almost 40 percent of the Israeli noncombatants killed by Palestinians.

Palestinian fatalities, in contrast, have been consistently and overwhelmingly (over 95 percent) male; even when combatants (almost all of whom have been male) are removed from consideration, fewer than 8 percent of Palestinians killed by Israel have been female.


In absolute terms, even though more Palestinians than Israelis have been killed overall, Israeli female fatalities have far outnumbered Palestinian female fatalities. If we include all reliable reports of women and girls killed in the conflict, the ratio is 152 Israeli females compared to 61 Palestinian females – a ratio of 2.5 to 1. If we restrict the comparison to noncombatant Israeli females killed by Palestinians and noncombatant Palestinian females killed by Israel, the difference is even more dramatic: 42 Palestinians compared to 150 Israelis, a ratio of more than 3.5 to 1.

Breakdown by Age

Israeli combatant fatalities are concentrated in a narrow age range, as we would expect for soldiers in a uniformed army. Israeli noncombatants, in contrast, display a near-random age distribution. This is equally unsurprising, given that these fatalities are the result of terrorist attacks on accessible civilian targets.


Palestinian fatalities present a quite different picture. Palestinian combatant fatalities, like those on the Israeli side, are concentrated in a narrow age range – although this concentration is slightly less pronounced. (This is unsurprising, given that Palestinian combatants are mostly members of unofficial terrorist/guerilla organizations.) Palestinian noncombatant fatalities, however, show an age distribution completely unlike that on the Israeli side. Instead of a “sloppy” distribution over a broad range of ages, Palestinian noncombatant fatalities are heavily concentrated among teenagers and young adults.



“Mature” and Young Fatalities

A more specific focus on older and younger victims of the conflict further highlights the difference between Palestinian and Israeli noncombatant fatalities. When we compare the “mature” noncombatant Israelis killed by Palestinians to the “mature” Palestinian noncombatants killed by Israel, we see that the Israeli death toll far exceeds the Palestinian. In fact, Palestinians have killed at least 154 noncombatant Israelis aged 40 and over, while Israelis have killed 69 Palestinian noncombatants in the same age bracket. The ratio is more than two to one.



When we look at children and teenaged noncombatants killed in the conflict, we see a rather strange pattern. Among both Palestinians and Israelis, the number of young children (under the age of 8-9 years old) is comparatively small (although more young Israeli children were killed as a proportion of total fatalities). The number of Palestinian children killed begins to increase at about 10 years of age, and jumps up dramatically between the ages of 12 and 14. However, the increase consists entirely of boys – the number of Palestinian girls killed shows no age-trend, and is very low for all ages.


Young Israelis killed by Palestinians show a different profile: Both boys and girls show an increase starting at age 14 (perhaps a year earlier for boys), and just as many teenaged girls were killed as teenaged boys.


Another Look at Age and Gender
It is worth taking another look at the relationship between age and gender among the noncombatant victims of the conflict. If we look at Palestinian noncombatants killed by Israel, we see that the few female fatalities appear to be randomly distributed by age. The male fatalities, on the other hand, are overwhelmingly young (although, as noted above, relatively few are below the age of ten). To be more precise, 66 percent of all Palestinian noncombatants killed by Israel were boys and men between the ages of 13 and 30.
Israeli noncombatants killed by Palestinians show a much closer balance between the sexes – as mentioned above, three out of eight were women and girls. In fact, slightly more girls than boys were killed below the age of 20; and the ratio is nearly one-to-one for those aged 60 and over.
In contrast to the high percentage of male Palestinian noncombatants between 13 and 30 years of age, only 27 percent of Israeli noncombatants killed by Palestinians were males from 13 to 30 years old.

The Significance of the Statistical Patterns

The statistics show that Israeli noncombatants over the last 21 months have been killed essentially at random, as Palestinian terrorists have chosen to attack whichever civilian targets were accessible. Palestinian fatalities, however, have been strongly concentrated within a particular population segment – teenaged boys and young men.

Population segments like women or older people are not military targets; thus their higher prevalence among Israeli fatalities is an indication of the degree to which Palestinian terrorists have killed Israelis simply for the “crime” of being Israeli.

In contrast, Palestinian noncombatant fatalities have been overwhelmingly young (but over the age of 11) and male. This pattern of Palestinian deaths completely contradicts accusations that Israel has “indiscriminately targeted women and children.” It is clear that the vast majority of the Palestinians killed did not die as the result of random Israeli attacks on inhabited areas, or on mixed-sex crowds at roadblocks and the like. There appears to be only one reasonable explanation of this pattern: that Palestinian men and boys engaged in behavior that brought them into conflict with Israeli armed forces. Certainly, at least after the first few days of the conflict, these Palestinian men and boys (or, in the case of the younger ones, their parents and teachers) have to have been aware that they were placing themselves in harm’s way.

In fact, the highly specific pattern of Palestinian noncombatant fatalities suggests that many of these deaths have resulted from an active Palestinian indoctrination campaign glorifying “martyrdom” – effectively encouraging boys and young men to confront Israeli forces and risk death even when there was no real likelihood of causing material harm to Israelis.


For further details, see the Full Report: An Engineered Tragedy: Statistical Analysis of Casualties in the Palestinian - Israeli Conflict, September 2000 - June 2002

reply by
TheAZCowBoy
7/7/2002 (17:35)
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Always the statistics are made up by Jews, the IDF thugs, or Israeli apologists, so we all know where their statitstics take us, huh folks?

According to Amnesty Int'l., over the past 19 months (Intifada) the IDF has murdered 302 Palestinian children under the age of 17. 57% of them have been Palestinian boys under the age of 16; 22% have been children under the age of 10 and 8% have been children under the age of 7 and 6% have been infants from 1 day to 3 months old. Of all the murdered Palestinian children 23% have been female children.

The interesting part is that 72% have died from shots to the head and thorax. Seemingly, the IDF hoodlums shoot to kill and not to disable by shooting at the limbs of the stone throwers--compassionate bast***d's huh?

Another interesting statistic is that the killings by the IDF have been committed by live bullets ( on occassion the 'illegal' dum-dum bullets are being used ). The rubber bullet seems to have become a relic of the past as the IDF'er Jews have gone on a serious killing rampagh from Jenin to Ramallah, to Rafah and a handful of Palestinian villages where relatives of the suicide bombers reside.

ANOTHER JOHN: 'More meaningful figures show that Israel is responsible for around 568 Palestinian noncombatant deaths, while Palestinian's have killed more than 420 Israeli non-combatants.'

TAC: Interesting statistics---espcially when the IDF lists even a 12 year old child lobbing a 5oz. stone at a bullet proof IDF steel Merkava tank--as a combatant!

See what I mean about these Zionist low lives--the bastards do their ethnic cleansing and then continue to blame the victims for their demise.

SOB's, now you see why your 'Oh, but Palestinian terrorists kill innocent Jews' is more and more being met with a tsunami of world wide extemporaneous: 'F**K Y*U's!!

Excuse me ANOTHER JOHN, I have to leave you now or I think I am going to vomit all over your racist and distorted post!

TheAZCowBoy,
reply by
just facts
7/7/2002 (18:02)
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'that Palestinian men and boys engaged in behavior that brought them into conflict with Israeli armed forces..... (snip)... these Palestinian men and boys (or, in the case of the younger ones, their parents and teachers) have to have been aware that they were placing themselves in harm’s way.....

(snip)....effectively encouraging boys and young men to confront Israeli forces and risk death even when there was no real likelihood of causing material harm to Israelis.'


This is not an 'Engineered Tragedy', John....it's a military occupation by forces equipped with the most lethal, advanced weaponry - supplied by a super-power ally who's lost all moral compass. We're talking slingshots against 'Merkavas', rocks and stones against 'Black Hawk' attack helicopters. This is a struggle so desperate and at once so futile, that any statistical numbers-juggling seems extremely vulgar. Would you prefer that the Palestinians could meet the illegal occupiers a bit more equally equipped? Maybe your numbers would then show greater symmetry. This attempt to place the blame on those most downtrodden, desperate, humiliated and hopeless kids is just disgusting propaganda, and the fabricated justifications are reminiscent of a period when they were used against the very people now applying them. I guess Israel would love nothing more than have all those 'Lumpen- Palestinians' meekly pack up and head for Jordan or Egypt, vacating the territory for greater Israeli 'Lebensraum' and fulfill the religious covenants so arduously claimed by both Jewish and Christian Fundamentalists.
reply by
Analyze
7/7/2002 (19:28)
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In scientific statistics: The first rule is you must have two equal entities to compare. IDF to mostly unarmed civilians does not hold true to equal entities.
#1 IDF uses large weapons against palestinians who naturally have their men & boys trying to protect their families. This leads more men & boys dying at the forefront.

#2 when Palestinian individuals go on a suicide mission, naturally, the people killed are civilians shopping, eating, & drinking starbucks who mostly happen to be women while their men (most of the IDF) are in uniforms killing the victims mentioned in #1

#3. Lastly but most importantly, the Palestinian deaths is threefold to the Israeli deaths. So to compile a percentage of 500 Israelis to a percentage of 1500 Palestinians gives you false results.

So therefore, one needs to compare equal numbers under equal circumstances under equal military advantages!

This is not a statistic of a true war death toll. This is randomly counting dead civilians on both sides as a result to a brutal one-sided military occupation. No scientific statistics can be compiled here!

A more reasonable toll would be: How many Palestinians receive a funeral & proper burrial compared to Israelis?
reply by
Mbeke
7/8/2002 (1:51)
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Winnie Madikizela-Mandela, the former wife of Nelson Mandela, goes on trial in South Africa on Monday on 85 charges of fraud and theft.

Winnie and Nelson divorced in 1996

The charges involve more than R1m ($100,000) allegedly obtained by fraud through her work for the ruling African National Congress (ANC).

She and a colleague are accused of obtaining for bank loans for fictitious members of the ANC's Women's League, which she heads.

It is the latest in a long line of personal scandals to hit Ms Madikizela-Mandela, who insists she is innocent and continues to enjoy widespread support in the country.

Prosecutors suspect the 65-year-old and broker Addy Moolman of a scam involving the use of Ms Madikizela-Mandela's signature to obtain the bank loans fraudulently.

Both defendants are expected to appear in the court in Pretoria.

Ms Madikizela-Mandela, who separated from former South African president in 1992, says she is being persecuted.

'Mother' to 'mugger'

The BBC's Alistair Leithead reports that she is still one of the most famous women in South Africa, and seen as a champion of the poor.

But the reputation of the sitting MP has been damaged by a succession of episodes, which led to the 'Mother of the Nation' being nicknamed 'Mugger of the Nation'.

The most dramatic event involved the murder of a young boy:


In 1991 she was convicted of kidnapping 14-year-old township activist Stompie Seipei in Soweto after his body was found with his throat cut near her home - her six-year prison sentence was reduced to a fine on appeal.
In 1996 Nelson Mandela finally divorced her for adultery.
In February of this year, she was evicted from the Soweto house she used to share with Mr Mandela before he went to prison under the apartheid regime. The house is due to become a museum.
This June she snubbed a parliamentary committee which had summoned her to explain how she lived a lavish lifestyle on her MP's salary.
reply by
The life of a crocidile.
7/8/2002 (3:03)
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Who is Israel.



If it is Israel's fault, then who is Israel?
What are you doing in Israel if it is Israel's
fault?
The Arabs attack Israel not because they are not
getting even a thin slice of the pie in some
humiliating surrender or compromise but because
the pie in its entirety is theirs.
Israel is Palestinian land. Can't you see that
from the mere fact that Israel is in an Arab
place, from the simple truth that Israel is made
by European Jews who are clearly foreigners in a
land of Arabs? Let us say you go to Harlem and
find one block made up of whites only, wouldn't
this strike you as singular? Israel is like
that,
a land of Jews in the midst of Arabs, a land
populated by Arabs prior to Jewish colonisation.

Truth requires the recognition that Arabs have a
clear right to the place and see no reason why
they should give up their claims. Moreover since
Arabs are united against Israel to a significant
degree through the very fabric of their religion
no end to hostility is forseeable.
reply by
MOST JEWS ARE IN THE MILITARY
7/8/2002 (4:38)
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ALL Jews reaching the age of 18 serve in the military.... Thereafter they are in the reserves until age 65... Israel is almost a fully militarized state ... Therefore their claim to all their civilian deaths is largely overblown .... ... .. alaqsaintifada..org ... ..Also... robincmiller.com/melinksfr.htm ....
reply by
smart
7/8/2002 (8:35)
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'Truth requires the recognition that Arabs have a
clear right to the place and see no reason why
they should give up their claims. Moreover since
Arabs are united against Israel to a significant
degree through the very fabric of their religion
no end to hostility is forseeable.'


Therein does lie the crux of the current dilemma. Israel exists. It is not going anywhere. Some, but not all Arabs refuse to allow it to exist. What is Israel to do?