A few questions to pro-israelis
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AuthorTopic: A few questions to pro-israelis
topic by
Paul (from germany)
8/5/2002 (19:42)
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Is the life of any jewish person or Israeli-jew higher in value than any other peoples life?

Do you agree that a jewish mother can´t feel more or less sorrow and pain than any other mother from any other peoples on earth when any of her children is killed.

What would you do if your houses will be bulldozed only because a single member of your family has committed a crime?

If your sister or brother killed another human, should you be punished as well?

How long will you be patient if there is only less or nearly no hope for a change to peace and liberty?

Are there two different laws for jews and palestines? If this is so, which one is the sacred law?

How long do you want to use this term 'holocaust' as a weapon against any critics?

Is killing palestinians an action that should have no consequences?

Do you feel better if you divide the peoples in jewish, us-americans, usefull peoples and unworthy muslims?

Can you be fair?


Maybe there are some people who can answer these questions without changing facts.
reply by
They Follow the Unknown Talmud
8/5/2002 (19:55)
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Go to.. (1).. biblebelievers.org.au/talmudx.htm ..(2).. Jewish Racism Against Non-Jews.... middleeast.org/comments/1/1844.shtml ..(3).. The Sick & Insane Teachings of the Talmud.... reportersnotebook.com ....Message Board... ... Aug. 5, 2002... ..(4).. hoffman-info.com/talmudtruth.html
reply by
Paul (from germany)
8/5/2002 (20:12)
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I have just forget one simple question:
Do you believe that Israel really wants a peace with the palestinians?
reply by
Pro-Israeli and Pro Peace
8/5/2002 (20:12)
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Is the life of any jewish person or Israeli-jew higher in value than any other peoples life?

Of course not. Every life is sacred and equal. However, it is natural for families to value the life of their kin over the life of their neighbors, much less the people who state that they want to kill them.




Do you agree that a jewish mother can´t feel more or less sorrow and pain than any other mother from any other peoples on earth when any of her children is killed.

This is a naive question. Almost all mothers will feel the utmost pain if their child is killed. Some twisted Palestinian mothers have sent their children to kill themselves and murder civillians. I imagine that even these twisted souls feel pain over their loss.



What would you do if your houses will be bulldozed only because a single member of your family has committed a crime?

I would be pissed, but I would also understand that it is a consequence for the murderous actions of my kin, and if any of my other family members told me they were going to kill some civillians I would stop them, if not because that would be the moral thing to do, than because I don't wish to lose my home again.



If your sister or brother killed another human, should you be punished as well?

If I knew about it before and didn't stop them? Absolutely. If I don't condemn it, but rather celebrate it? Yes, but moderated accordingly. The suicide bomber needs to understand that although he or she doesn't care about dying they are going to cause their family pain.
Paul - If you knew that your parents and siblings would lose their home if you blew yourself up in order to murder some civillians and that your siblings might be expeled from the country, would you blow yourself up?



How long will you be patient if there is only less or nearly no hope for a change to peace and liberty?

What does this mean? Are you implying that Palestinians have/had no chance for peace and liberty? That flies in the face of the Taba 2001 talks in which the PA was offered a viable Palestinian state. Not exactly what they wanted perhaps, but it is absurd to pretend that the Palestinians were denied peace and liberty. It is also absurd to view their present predicament and condition outside of the context of the war they started in response to Barak's proposal at Camp David.


Are there two different laws for jews and palestines? If this is so, which one is the sacred law?


Laws are created by communities. In Israel there are laws for citizens and different laws for non-citizens. Israeli Arabs have the same rights as Israeli Jews. Neither law is sacred, but if you live in a community you must follow those laws or work to change them. If the settlers end up living in a Palestinian state they must abide by that country's laws or face the consequences. Same thing for the Palestinians living in Israel.


How long do you want to use this term 'holocaust' as a weapon against any critics?

The Holocaust is not used as a weapon against any critics. Simple minded people who cannont grasp the complexity of the conflict use this argument as a means to either undermine pro-Israeli positions or to deflect guilt off of the crimes of their parents and grandparents. As long as there are people who call for the genocide of the Jews, or any group for that reason, there is strong cause to remember this horrible event.



Is killing palestinians an action that should have no consequences?

What do you mean no consequences? Should there be no consequences for INTENTIONALLY killing an innocent Palestinian civillian? Of course not. The person should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. This include Palestinians who kill other palestinians. If the killing wasn't intentional the consequence should be moderated accordingly. Just like with any other group or country.



Do you feel better if you divide the peoples in jewish, us-americans, usefull peoples and unworthy muslims?

What does this mean? Are you asking if I feel better dehumanizing Muslims? No. Dehumanizing any group dehumanizes us all. Muslims should understand that the horrific dehumanization that they do of Jewish people is exactly what the rest of the world will do to them. It is only when we resist the urge to dehumanize the other that we can persuade others not to do to ourselves.



Can you be fair?

Yes. It is always hard for people to be fair when they are heavily invested in an outcome, but in the end it is almost always the only way out of a conflict.
Paul - Do you think you can be fair?


Maybe there are some people who can answer these questions without changing facts.


Very well. Paul, can you respond to my comments.
Thanks.



reply by
Pro Israel Pro Peace
8/5/2002 (20:18)
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I have just forget one simple question:
Do you believe that Israel really wants a peace with the palestinians?


Yes. The vast majority of Israelis know that they will always be living with the Palestinians and that they need to learn to be good neighbors. Right now most of the Israelis just want to put as much distance between themselves and the Palestinians as possible since many Palestinians are dead set on murdering the Israelis. Some Israelis would like to expel the Palestinians into Jordan, and if the Palestinians are not careful and use weapons of mass destruction against Israel they will be likely be expelled. If they produce new leaders who are committed to a 2 state solution and a genuine peace with Israel they will eventually be able to win the confidence of the Israeli middle and we go back to Taba 2001. Perhaps. There will have to be several years of confidence building measures.
The Palestinians will have to confront those in their midst who reject a 2 state solution and contain them or there will be no way to make a deal.



Paul - Do you think the Palestinian people really want peace with the Israelis?
reply by
Paul (from germany)
8/5/2002 (20:25)
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to Pro-Israeli and Pro Peace:
I can agree to many of your answers, but not to your answer about the collective punishment.
Collective punishment was used by the nazis and many other dictatorships. So this could never be a right way to react. And when we talk about members of a family, there is no need to talk about brothers and sisters. Even a far member of your family, who killed a jew would be reason enough to use collective punishment.
Why do I have the feeling that your words about one law for all is a little bit cynical? I have read so many stories about jews that killed palestinians but weren´t punished at all.
Why can´t you understand that the injustice and the unequality must end before you can ask to stop those selfdestructional attacks on Israelis?
No way, to say that it is not the right way either.
Maybe Israel should stop the giving of reasons to young palestinians to use such horrible kamikaze-tactics.
reply by
ADAM
8/5/2002 (20:31)
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TO PAUL:
LETS ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS ONE @ A TIME.
IN THE EYES OF GOD LIFE OF EVERY HUMAN BEING IS EQUUALLY VALUABLE, JEW OR GENTILE BOTH THE SAME. BUT THE PROBLEM IN THIS CASE HAS NOTHING TO DO W/ WHOS LIFE IS MORE IMPORTANT OR WHOS MOTHER WILL FEEL MORE OR LESS PAIN.
ISRAEL IS A REAL TINY COUNTRY COMPARED W/ THE REST OF THE ARAB NATIONS & IS STRUGLING FOR SURVIVEL. GROUPS LIKE HAMAS, ISLAMIC JIHAD, HESBOLAH OF IRAN & FEW OTHERS ARE DOING EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO DESTROY THE STATE OF ISRAEL. THEY HAVE SAID SO! JUST 4 DAYS AGO, HAMAS SAID THAT JEWS SHOULD PACK-UP & GO BACK TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM! WELL YOU KNOW & I KNOW THAT IT WILL NOT HAPPEN & JEWS ARE HERE TO REMAIN. IF A MUSLEM ARAB BLOWS HIMSELF UP & HE DIES, WHOM CAN ISRAEL HOLD RESPONSIBLE? I HAVE SEEN THE FAMILIES OF THOSE BOMBERS THROW HUGE PARTIES AFTER THEIR SON OR THEIR BROTHER COMMITS A TERRIBLE ACT OF MURDER! WELL IN THAT CASE, THEY DO DESERVE TO LOSE THEIR HOUSE & EVEN BELONGING!
PALS GET SHOT DEAD BECAUSE OF THEIR CRIMINAL ACTIONS & UNFORTUNATELY SOME CIVILIANS DO GET HURT. REMEMBER THAT PALS WERE THE ONES WHO DECLARED WAR ON ISRAELI CIVILIANS. JUST YESTERDAY RIGHT AFTER 19 ISRAELIS LOST THEIR LIVES, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PALS, MOST OF THEM YOUNG RARTIED IN THE STREETS. THAT IS SICK!!!
reply by
Paul (from germany)
8/5/2002 (20:38)
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Oh Adam, stop your bullshit of dangerous and mean muslims and about poor little Israel. Israel is only little when they start stop hiding behing their big shadow, the US of A.
And by the way, isn´t it cynical when you talk about pals civilians that were hurt by Israels defense attacks? I guess the killed palestinian babies in Gaza were only hurt and evil pals declared them as deads. Oh boy, you can be so funny.
reply by
Pro Israel Pro Peace
8/5/2002 (20:41)
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Paul - There have been a small number of documented cases in which Israeli settlers were given light sentences for killing Palestinians. I hate these assholes and would like to see them rot in a prison. They defame Zionism. But in most of those cases they may have been trying to beat someone without killing them. This was likely their defense and it is hard to prove them wrong in a court of law, so they get off without the appropriate level of punishment. There are many more cases of Palestinians being killed by other Palestinians in retribution killings, or because someone was considered a collaborator. These folks have also not been punished. Be consistent and your protests against the settlers will carry much more weight.

As for collective punishment, it is always a terrible thing when an innocent person suffers for the misdeeds of another, and in ordinary circumstances I wouldn't condone it, but in the current climate I think the Israelis need to find some solution to discouraging suidice bombers from killing them. Shortly after there is a cessation in violence the Israelis will leave the Palestinians cities and towns. The Palestinians know this, but don't seem to want that to happen. They would prefer for the solidiers to stay and be picked off one by one and tax the Israeli economy, rather than have the Israeli leave and have the Palestinians police themselves.

You say the Israelis must stop their behavior first. I say the Palestinians must stop their behavior first. Both must stop.
The Palestinians must cease immediately and the Israelis must leave Palestinian cities as soon as possible and freeze any further settlement development.

Neither is likely to happen until after the dust settles over Iraq and we see what is the status of Jordan. Neither group wants to commit to anything when they think there is possibility of something better down the line. In the meantime there will be many more deaths and much more collective punishment.

It's tragic. But this one sided bullshit on MER that just turns into jew bashing anti-Israel rag sessions doesn't do anything to help the situation except entertain some bored retirees.



PS - ADAM IS A HAMAS PLANT. Here to make Evangelical Christians look a little like AZCowboy.
reply by
King David
8/5/2002 (20:43)
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I WILL TELL YOU ONE SIMPLE THING & THAT IS:
ISRAEL WILL DO EVERYTHING WHICH IS CAPABLE OF IN ORDER TO SURVIVE. IF IT COMES TO THE USE OF N. BOMBS, ISRAEL WILL USE THEM JUST LIKE THE UNITED STATES DID USE ON JAPAN! LET ARABS MAKE NO MISTAKE.
reply by
Pro Israel Pro Peace
8/5/2002 (20:43)
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To be fair to ADAM here, your response to his comments, Paul, were pretty weak. Try treating him as a serious person and see what you get from him.
reply by
Paul (from germany)
8/5/2002 (20:46)
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to Pro Israeli and Pro Peace:

Don´t let us talk about this Swiss Cheese offer from Barak. Many intelligent people and political scientists have come to the conclusion that those offers were a trap, nothing else.
Stop the settlers and the constant rape of a country that isn´t yours alone.
reply by
ADAM
8/5/2002 (20:49)
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TO KING DAVID, WHY DID YOU COPIED MY STYLE BY USING UPPER CASE LETTERS?!! IS IT BECOMING POPULAR?
AND TO YOU SO CALLED PRO ISRAEL PRO PEACE PERSON, REMEMBER THAT THE BEST FRIEND OF ISRAEL LIVING OUTSIDE OF ISRAEL ARE EVANGELCAL CHRISTIANS! NEVER FORGET THAT.
reply by
Pro Israel Pro Peace
8/5/2002 (20:50)
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Paul - Please break down the problems with Baraks proposal at Taba in 2001 for me. What is the problem with this proposal that negotiations couldn't mediate?

Paul - Do you think it was the right strategy for Arafat and company to launch a terror war against Israel following the Camp David Proposal?

Do you think the Palestinians are likely to get a better settlement now, after all that has happened?
reply by
Paul (from germany)
8/5/2002 (20:53)
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to Pro Israeli and Pro Peace:
Sorry, but I can´t take Adam as a serious person. I have read to much from him.
No question to agree to the fact that both parties must change their behavior.
I also don´t see any need to talk about who struck first, the result is the worst thing I ever saw in conflict.
But what is the solution?
I really can´t believe that Sharon wants any peace.
reply by
Pro Israel Pro Peace
8/5/2002 (20:54)
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ADAM - I appreciate anyone willing to stand up for Israel's right to exist and to shout down anti-semites. I really do. I appreciate that about you. But you must understand that it is the same sort of fundamentalism that you preach that inhibits Jews and Muslims from living as neighbors. It is not inclusive, whether it is coming from a Jew, a Christian, or an Arab. Besides, Evangelical Christians have their own agenda in the Mid East to bring back their Messiah, Jesus Christ. While I'd like to believe that that stuff is really true, my cynicism about religion keeps me from believing it.

So, I appreciate the support, but I hope in the end you are wrong and Armageddon is a long way a way.

Shalom.

reply by
Paul (from germany)
8/5/2002 (20:59)
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If both sides really want a peacefull living, they have to pay a price for it. The bill is full with victims till now and I guess the last one isn´t dying yet. This sounds cynical and it is cynical, but it is the truth. You know this.
The pals and the israelis aren´t differing that much in their reactions. Revenge, and revenge. I can´t hear this anymore.
The Barak offer was a trap and the chance for Arafat to lose his face.
I guess it was only made to weak Arafat in any way, in front of his friends and his enemies.

What do they want, peace or war? I guess there is no real alternative to a war.
reply by
Paul (from germany)
8/5/2002 (21:02)
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Sorry, but english is not my native language.
This sentence is wrong:
What do they want, peace or war? I guess there is no real alternative to a war.
This is the right sentence:
What do they want, peace or war? I guess there is no real alternative to a peace.
reply by
Pro Israel Pro Peace
8/5/2002 (21:05)
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Paul - Like I said, Sharon and Arafat are interested to see what happens after the dust settles in Iraq.

I think Sharon may be predicting a fall of the Hashemite kingdom and a break up of Jordan with a Palestinian electorate taking control of some lands and creating a Palestinian state. A very large one at that. Sharon is thinking that in the fighting Israel will take over segments of Jordan and then negotiate a peace treaty with the new Palestinian state in Jordan whereby they trade strategically sensitive West Bank lands to Israel for other Israeli territory and the land Israel acquired in the breakup of Jordan. Muslim rule over Al Aksa will also be negotiated as part of the settlement.

Arafat and Hamas may be thinking that in the event of a catastrophic attack of biological and chemical weapons against Israel the Palestinians may be able to take control of large swathes of Israeli land, if not the entire country. They will hope for the intervention of Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Hezbollah, and maybe even Egypt. Not likely, but everyone has their fantasy.


There is not a whole of incentive for either party to make compromises at this point unless they come under enormous internation pressure. Both countries. Not just one.

reply by
Pro Israel Pro Peace
8/5/2002 (21:06)
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Paul - Your english is excellent.

Your third or fourth language I imagine.

You europeans are amazing.
reply by
ADAM
8/5/2002 (24:07)
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TO PRO ISRAELI FRIEND; SHALOM. I AM A CHRISTIAN & A TRUE FRIEND OF ISRAEL & JEWISH PEOPLE. I DO NOT WANT ANYTHING FROM JEWS IN RETURN, JUST A GOOD FRIEND. MUSLEM ARABS WILL NEVER EVER LIKE JEWS NO MATTER WHAT JEWS DO IN ORDER TO BRING PEACE, BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT THERE WILL NEVER BE PEACE IN THAT AREA & THAT IS BECAUSE OF MUSLEMS WHO WANT ALL JEWS TO LEAVE THE AREA FOR GOOD. EVERYTHING THAT THOSE MUSLEMS SAY COCERNING PEACE W/ ISRAEL IS A GIANT LIE & THEY ARE DECEIVING MANY OF THOSE PEACE LOVING JEWS!
reply by
ADAM
8/5/2002 (24:14)
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BY THE WAY, ISRAELI NAVAL FORCES HAVE GERMAN MADE SUBMARINES WHICH ARE EQUIPED W/ N. MISSILES CAPABLE OF DESTRYING ANY & EVERY MAJOR CITY IN ARAB WORLD WITHIN FEW MIN'S.!
THEY WILL LINCH ONLY IF CHEMICAL WEAPONS ARE USED AGAINST THEM.
reply by
ADAM
8/5/2002 (24:48)
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BY THE WAY ALSO MY LEFT TESTICLE IS VERY SMALL!!!AND I BE GETTING MY DEPLOMA SOON!!
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
8/6/2002 (1:38)
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A 7 minute commentary by theAZCowBoy, whooppee!

Re: KIND DAVID comes forth with his usual Zionist bull shit, 'I WILL TELL YOU ONE SIMPLE THING & THAT IS:
ISRAEL WILL DO EVERYTHING WHICH IS CAPABLE OF IN ORDER TO SURVIVE.

TAC: Hey ole fornicating Jewish King, it is a well known fact that a blood sucking parasite, of which the Zionist Jews are a sub-species, will not give up without a fight. The Piranha's of the Amazon river, the LEECHES of the rivers of Tanzania, et. al. same-oh-same-oh.

But there comes a time--even for a holy LEECH to die--and as I see it the desperate Zionist parasites--backs to the wall--despite holding all the ( and the US' ) aces have few options left but to fight to the death--yes, even using nuclear weapons--for their survival.

Lemmie see, the Arabs lose 100 million lives--the Jews a measly 6.3 million--CHECKMATE, Arabs! :)

Pack up your bags baby, 'It's crying time we're gonna miss you.' :( not really, it's just an old silly Ray Charles song I really like :)

But, what-the-hell, for 3,000 years since you Jew's left Kazaria in the cacasus of eastern Europe you've always traveled 'light' so 'What's new pussy cat?' :( Love that old song by what's-his-face from England? :)

Yes, the Middle East is headed for a real showdown gents.....

Why else are the US Congressional Zionist infiltrators and Jewish traitors; Lieberman, Levin, Feinstein, Finegold and Lantos and a few AIPAC/ZOA 'hotwired' harlots [ Boy, oh boy, does our John McCain-R (AZ) and Jon Kyl-R (AZ) jaws get tight when we call them by this handle! ] pushing that US/Israeli war of terror off on the Iraqi's, Libyan's, Iranian's and Syrians--if only to get Israel's tit out of the Arab wringer, huh Kingee?

But DON'T WORRY--BE HAPPY Jew boy, in the end the good guys win.

Otherwise, why would Jehovah say in the Holy Scriptures that 'The meek will inherit the earth?'

Epilog: I say, the Middle East becomes a radioactive wasteland after WW III is concluded--and the Zionist parasites move on to Africa where they will continue their Nazi tactics until they get the caca beat out of them by the highly PO'd African natives and in the end they will end up in big clay pots and the native's will 'eat-em-up,' and 'shit-em-out, like little Kosher Rabbit dingle berries and the cycle goes on and on all over again.

Yes, yes, I know--you 'all predict Israel will kick all of their collective Arab arses, but, if you remember the Vietnam war where the 800 lb. gorilla was sent packing by an army of ants ( Viet Cong they called themselves ) and in the end--the Gorilla had to high tail it out of Indo China before the massacre of Dien Bien Phu was repeated--[ Oh my, could those French legionaires run, see Dick run, run Dick run--Oh Dick where is the rest of your arse! ].

Problem for the LIKUDNIK gang-of-thugs at this point is like the ole nutshell game--'Who has the nukes- oh my, who has the nukes!'

The Iranian's the Libyan's, the Syrians? All of the above?

Hehehehe, guess!!

TheAZCowBoy,
reply by
Resources
8/6/2002 (2:14)
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Go to.. (1).. jerusalem.indymedia.org ..(2).. palestinechronicle.com ..(3).. nilemedia.com ..(4).. pmwatch.org ...(5).. Btselem.org ..(6).. alternativenews.net ..(7).. electronicintifada.net ..(8).. cursor.org/ .....(9).. reportersnotebook.com ...Message Board....
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
8/6/2002 (9:32)
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Re: PRO ISREALI---A Zionist low life, sez:
'Some twisted Palestinian mothers have sent their children to kill themselves and murder civilians.'

TAC retorts: 'Twisted mothers?!' Hey, when you're up to your arse in Jewish alligators--you gotta drain the swamp!

Let's admit it, it's those Zionist whores that breed all those blood sucking Zionist parasites that are the ones that need killing--because without them there wouldn't be this Zionist LEECH problem in the territories or here in America.

Giving up a son or daughter in defense of your freedom, your land, your water and your soverignty is NO VICE, it's been done for millenniums!

I mean, the Zionist low lives have stolen 77% of your Balfour Declaration homeland--so what to do?

You take the bast**ds out, KA-BOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

'3,000 years and 150 nations and always the Jewish parasites never find room at the inn,' and 'this time' they want to blame the Palys--and/or even the

TheAZCowBoy!

Squeeze the juice Arafat!

Or better yet 'get re-elected in January!'

reply by
Josie
8/6/2002 (10:14)
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This was actually a good conversation before TAC came along.

Don't let him stop you boys. Communicate with one another. Just tune the bore out.
reply by
John Calvin
8/6/2002 (16:46)
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Ya, Az's two cents, obviously from 'the wheel chair of moral and intellectual decrepitude', who only suceeds in inciting people like Adam who might one day change their attitude, however, slightly. For instance, it is hard to imagine a real 'friend of Israel' being very happy under the present circumstances where the only apparent 'light at the end of the tunnel' is some kind of total 'ethnic cleaning' of the West Bank which would completely poison its relations with the Arab world for at least two hundred years. Better friends of Israel would plead some at least minimum attempt to comply with the U.N. Resolutions pertaining to these matters. Equally, it is hard to imagine a real friend of the Palestinians resorting to the Kitschy trash characteristic of AZCowboy.
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
8/6/2002 (17:38)
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Motor mouth Johnny & fat Josephine have teamed up to form:

Amalgamated cut-n-paste Brotherhood of America!

No article too long or too boring for these two one armed paper posters to tackle it and get it on the MER site!

TAC,

PS: Hey Johnny, with Josie on board--it has to be the Glock, huh?

Oh well, the dildo has a short in it anyway....

reply by
ISRAELI MYTHS EXPOSED
8/6/2002 (18:01)
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Go to.. (1).. http://natcath.org/NCR_online/archives/030102/030102u.htm ... (2).. SHARON'S STEALTH PLAN:... washintonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41840-2002Jul21.html ..(3).. ISRAEL'S LONG TERM STRATEGY:... yellowtimes.org/article.php?sid=559 ..and... middleeast.org/comments/1/4064.shtml ..(4).. THE MYTH of THE GENEROUS OFFER:.... fair.org/extra/0207/generous.html
reply by
Gabriel
8/6/2002 (21:16)
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I concur with Pro Israel Pro Peace.

I also concur with John Calvin.
reply by
ADAM
8/6/2002 (24:38)
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JOHN, ISRAEL DOES NOT NEED FRIENDS LIKE ARAB PEOPLE. SHE HAS MANY GOOD FRIENDS ALL OVER THE WORLD SPECIALLY IN THE UNITED STATES! IF IT COMES TO KICKING PALS OUT OF W. BANK & GAZA, THEN LET IT BE!!
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
8/7/2002 (1:09)
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Re: ADAM talking about Zionisms Pariah capital:

Israel: 'SHE HAS MANY GOOD FRIENDS ALL OVER THE WORLD SPECIALLY IN THE UNITED STATES!'

TAC: Oh yes, and like in the case of Slob Milosevic--they're four rows wide and two miles long--waiting to sign the petition that awards the pariah state of Israel the Betty Crocker GOOD HOUSEKEEPING seal of approval, jajajaja.

TAC,

BTW: 92% of Israel's tourism business is kaput! ( This includes one very 'kaput' Ravaham Zi'vee, ex-Israeli Tourism Minister and Rabbi Meir Kahane wannabe, who seems to have run into a few 'stray' AK-47 rounds on his way to a KATCH PARTY rally a few months ago, hahahaha ).

Friends don't let friends run empty hotels--maybe you should help out and do Alyiah this month, huh ADAM?

***********************************************

Public Announcement:

'WISSO' will be back from Lebanon later this month!

STAY TUNED for further news!
reply by
Bill
8/7/2002 (9:01)
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Adam,

Question is does the US need friends like Israel who has been spying on the US for years. (Remember Jonathan Pollard? Israel then sold our AWACS technology to China, gee thanks, we really needed that. It goes on and on. Israel's Masad was wiretapping Clinton's phone conversations with Monica L and used that to blackmail him further. We need allies like this????????????
Israel desperately needs US, US needs Israel like a whole in the head. As far as Israel being a democracy, bull, it is a theocracy, you can only vote IF YOU ARE JEWISH!
reply by
Gabriel
8/7/2002 (9:24)
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You are wrong Bill. Dead wrong.
In fact Arab Muslims have more rights in Israel than they do in any Arab state.

Do you think it is Jewish Israelis who are voting in all those Arab Muslim members to the Knesset?

Bill - How come there is an Muslim General in the Israeli Defense Force.

Before you spew more of your caca why don't you at least try to look like you an itsy bitsy clue as to what is really happening.

capiche?
reply by
Lynette
8/7/2002 (9:42)
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mmmmmmmm...........

Gabriel states that arabs have more rights in Israel than in any arab country.


Gabby pal/honey that is not the issue. You people crow to the world that Israel is the only democracy in the region and all it's citizens are treated equally. TAC is right....

When Israel calls itself a Democracy you should spell it with a little d mate. I am still off my tits with rage over that poor arab nurse that can't live where he wants in Jerusalem after working for an Israeli hospital for years wiping the bums/cleaning up the vomit of Jewish patients. He's good enough to work as your personal paid slave, but not good enough to live next too,huh? Come over to OZland and see how long you would last if you pulled that stunt here. Arabs to treated like second class SHIT inside Israel and in Jerusalem too. Why don't you be more like a refusenik and wake up to your countries massive human rights abuses?
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
8/7/2002 (11:30)
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Goo Goo eyed GABRIEL sez; 'I concur with Pro Israel/Pro Peace. I also concur with John Calvin.

Well, make up your mind fellow, I've ordered the rings, the French champagne and the 'Ortho' Rabbi is on his way!

TheAZCowBoy,
reply by
Bill
8/7/2002 (12:42)
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Hey Gabriel,

How about the other issues I raised? Jonathan Pollard spying on the US which Israel first denied and then finally admitted which cost the US countless dollars and lost agents in Russia and other place. Then like I said the Israeli's selling US AWACS technology to China? I used to work for a Massad agent and he would sell arms to the North Koreans without thinking about it.

So where is the CACA?
Capiche
reply by
GM
8/7/2002 (17:30)
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We want WISSO , we want WISSO, we want WISSO!!!
reply by
Hanson
8/7/2002 (17:49)
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The New Fascism
Frightening extremist rhetoric from America’s critics.

Watching televised clips from a recent pro-Palestinian rally in Washington, along with other such demonstrations over the last few weeks, can be a chilling experience. One woman chanted, 'Israel will be no more' — apparently a call for the abject and utter destruction of the Jewish state. On posters the Star of David was juxtaposed to a swastika — the sick subtext of that message lost on no one. Many openly condemned the 'Jews' and 'Zionists' in a manner reminiscent of Nuremberg circa 1936. The past few days their government-sponsored supporters in the Arab world talked of Jews as 'monkeys,' and called for the 'termination' of Israel.

During a time of war, with a still-damaged Pentagon not far in the distance, the United States was roundly denounced on television as imperialistic and a promoter of terror and international murder. Our commander-in-chief was repeatedly called a traitor and terrorist. Calls were made for solidarity with convicted cop killers like Mumia Abu-Jamal and H. Rap Brown. Several spokesmen made impassioned appeals on behalf of totalitarian Cuba and North Korea, while calling America a lawless and rogue state. As I listened to more and far worse hatred, my thoughts drifted back to my hacking Swedish grandfather gassed in the Argonne, my father who flew on 39 missions over Japan, my uncle Victor killed on Okinawa, and a cousin Holt shot at Normandy. So as I heard such virulent hatred of America in its greatest crisis in 60 years, I thought — so they fought for all this?

The murderous regimes of Iraq, Libya, and Iran were the favored nations of many of the speakers. Threats against Sharon's person and Israel were frequently voiced — all broadcast live on C-SPAN. What are we to make of this recent, and very odd, coalescence of the new anti-American Left with radical Islamicists and pro-Palestinian extremists?

In one sense, it is hilarious. Militant Arab Americans — who know a little about doing business in the inner city — looked a little nonplussed by calls for empathy with police murderers. In turn, some anti-globalists seemed pained to hear the thinly disguised anti-Semitism from Islamic activists and fundamentalists.

The only common denominator that seemed to keep all happy was an entertaining mixture of envy for and hatred of all things American. A Philippine speaker on the one hand damned America for fighting terrorism in her homeland, and on the other blasted the United States for not allowing more illegal immigrants in from the Philippines. Her message apparently was 'Get out of my country — and take us with you.'

Several Middle Easterners denounced America for trouncing on civil liberties and monitoring Islamic groups after Sept. 11 — as preparation for praising the Palestinian authority, which allows neither free speech nor a free press. Some called the elected Bush an illegitimate authoritarian as they praised the authoritarian Palestinian authority that hasn't had an election in years — or an opposition and free press ever.

Arabs were commended for immigrating to the United States from their home countries, which, of course, were also praised. Apparently a distant America looks good when you live under a fascist police state, which in turn suddenly looks good from a distance when you finally get free and reach America.

Despite the carnival atmosphere, this new virulent form of anti-Americanism has also an old and disturbing fascist ring to it. The subtext of the entire rally was really anti-Semitism and tacit support for suicide bombing as a means to attack Israel. The buzz words 'holocaust' and 'genocide' were sprinkled about as an obvious sneer — as if the deaths of a hundred in Jenin at last would mean that six million gassed no longer deserved any special moral capital. Again and again we were told that dark influences force the United States to give billions to Israel against the will of its citizenry. Religious authoritarianism was evident — punctuated by readings from the Koran and several apocalyptic threats and pronouncements. Several speakers in black shirts and quasi-military garb screamed for international resistance by a coalition of Palestinians, people of color, and anti-capitalists.

All the nations praised by the various speakers — Cuba, Palestine, Libya, Iran, and Iraq — are run by strongmen and are without freedom. A constant topos was that the democratic government of the United States does not represent the people — and that real Americans are not served by traditional elections, which were repeatedly labeled fraudulent. Congress and the president are purportedly illegitimate and so their votes for aid to Israel are intolerable. A few American flags and repeated references to the 'real' America made it clear that the activists believe they are the true nationalists and alone comprise the patriotic grassroots core of the country who wish 'to take it back' 'by any means necessary' from its corrupt government and elite.

If I were to distill the shrill agenda of the various groups who mouthed such unadulterated hatred — Palestinian extremists, anti-Americanists, racial supremacists — it would run something like this: None want democracy and a real free exchange of ideas, open dialogue, and discussion in which their own agendas would, and have had, little resonance. The modus operandi is to scream, threaten, and lie — the bigger the better — to unleash hatred. Indeed, many of the speakers at the rally seem to be seething that a rather secure and free American citizenry does not much care for their views. No matter — they favor some type of authoritarian figure or hierarchy to implement their own particular agenda of 'workers' rights,' utopian egalitarianism, American realignment overseas toward countries run by dictators, and a crackdown on their purported enemies — Jews, global corporations, and capitalists in general.

The constant refrain of 'people of color' and the repeated invocation of 19th-century oppressions of slavery, Indian reservations, and immigration biases made it clear that the common oppressor in all this, then and now, is also so-called white America. The Big Lie was evident throughout — 'ten thousand' Palestinians murdered in Jenin; Mr. Sharon's purportedly private confessions of his desire to murder and molest Palestinian innocents; and all the usual fabrications about President Bush, the oil conspiracy, the CIA — along with other assorted lunatic rantings not heard on national television since last Halloween when C-SPAN aired similar venom and anti-Semitism from a kindred alliance of Islamic fundamentalists and black nationalists who denied bin Laden was involved in 9/11. After watching a half hour of all this, I though I was viewing al-Jazeera rather than C-SPAN — until it was announced that, in fact, al-Jazeera was broadcasting it as well!

History and facts mattered little, and so were not mentioned. Suicide murdering; bound and gagged Palestinians executed by their own comrades; booby-trapped homes and corpses; ambulances used as terrorist vehicles; bomb factories at U.N. camps; ample U.S. military aid to Egypt, Jordan, and Palestine; and the long history of the region that has witnessed three wars against Israel launched from the Arab-controlled West Bank to destroy the Jewish state never came up. Nor did the current popularity of Mein Kampf in Arab bookstores.

We have seen this all before. Think back to a Hitler, not in 1939 at the head of the German state and posed for world war — but rather in the late 1920s when he was an irrelevant firebrand trying to bully his way into the German national consciousness through poorly attended rallies and rag-tag marches. His message of victimhood was very similar to what we have been witnessing in the current ad hoc coalescence of ' underdogs' that has sprung up to support Mr. Arafat and his campaign of terror. As a nationalist who alone represented the 'Volk,' Hitler ranted that a corrupt democracy had bypassed the 'people,' and that only radical change could 'save Germany.' Then the Jews and their all-reaching influence as capitalists, bankers, and international financiers — the old globalists, in other words — were likewise responsible for the world's ills. Conspiracies abounded that aimed to enrich a few at the expense of the common man.

For the early fascists, ethnic solidarity was paramount — friends and enemies were thus defined in group terms and on the basis on their race. Dictators abroad like Mussolini who were for the 'people' — like Khaddafi or Arafat now? — were far preferable to the illegitimate, weak, and decadent liberal democracies in France, England, and America.

At home aristocrats and the wealthy were the 'oppressors' of the German working class — hence the need for a powerful National Socialist Workers' Party run by cadres of militants. Elected German officials of Weimar were 'traitors' who were 'selling out' Germany's true national interests. 'Oppressed' Germans were under terrible occupation by Jewish-controlled governments in France, Czechoslovakia, and Poland and subject to horrendous outrages that went unanswered.

Fringe causes from radical environmentalism to crackpot mysticism found sympathy and alliance under such an energized reformist. Respectable journalists, politicians, and academics saw Hitler's buffoons as laughable and so ignored his constant litany of hate and untruths. History was to be made up and distorted — the First World War was not caused by an aggressive Germany, but surely lost by a 'stab in the back' by Jews at home. Thugs, murderers, and bombers were not condemned, but cited as symptoms of a larger corruption of the German state — the maltreated victims who lacked a voice and were thus 'forced' out of 'desperation' to the streets and violence.

The truth is that a lunatic fringe similar to Hitler of the early 1920s is also active now in America, and has tried to galvanize resistance to the Untied States by using the events of Sept. 11 and the recent fighting in the Middle East. But this time the racists, fascists, and faux-victims are from the purported Left and not the Right. If the Democratic party will not denounce these totalitarians and their extremist supporters like Al Sharpton — as the Republicans once ostracized the militias and white supremacists — then all ordinary Americans must step up to employ clear and honest language in opposing their frightening agenda. They are not progressives, not even socialists, communists, or anarchists. Rather, their language is pure hatred — as well as anti-Semitic and fascistic. The governments they support overseas are murderous and dictatorial; their currency is race — oppressed 'people of color' are good, other 'oppressors,' especially Jews, less so — and their message is violent and wishes an end to the present democratically elected government in the United States.

The only way to confront the new fascists is to speak honestly about them and not remain silent. Each time a Palestinian extremist uses the word 'Jew,' each time an activist praises Libya, Iraq, or Iran and either condones or praises suicide murderers, each time a screaming protestor slanders the present president of the United States as a killer, terrorist, and war criminal, each time we hear of conspiracies that explain our aid to Jewish Israel, we must all simply remonstrate, 'Hitler would smile at every thing you say.'

And, of course, he would.
reply by
Pauline
8/7/2002 (17:52)
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Fellow Australians,
Ours is a great Nation.

Some might say it is not as great as it was, but at least we are not yet at the stage of referring to our country as a 'once great Nation'.

Australia has a proud history of courage, determination and sacrifice, and there is perhaps no better example than that which is embodied in the spirit of ANZAC.

While ANZAC in particular relates to the members of the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps who landed at Gallipoli on that terrible and fateful morning of 25 April 1915, we have had a tendency to apply the name ANZAC to all who have served since, because they all carry the spirit and courage of those FIRST ANZACs who carved forever Australia's place in military history.

The knockers have not yet begun to openly ridicule those who fought at Gallipoli but they are waiting their turn so we must be forever vigilant, and prepared to respond, for the destruction of all that Australians hold dear is well advanced.

The time will come when the Internationalists, who are like parasites preying on our heritage, will assault the memory of those who served and those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our country.

It is our responsibility to make sure young Australians do not fall for the politically corrected view of history of the Internationalists.

My own grandfather was wounded at Gallipoli and while I was not fortunate enough to know him, it is with a great deal of pride I hear the stories of so many who served.

You can be sure my children will know of their heritage, and the price paid to preserve it.

I will read you some of the words of ANZACs:

'It was midnight, conditions were clear and quiet for Gallipoli. We had just come in from about 8 hours digging. We were tired.

Gallipoli was a sad place for us, and just at that time it seemed weirdly unreal. The everlasting smell of the dead hung over the place.

The acrid smell of cordite drifted across, and nostalgia seemed to well up in our throats as it never did before. We sat down, just done out.'

Private John Kidd, a carpenter from Evansdale Tasmania - 29 May 1915.

Or this:

'In the midst of uninhabited hills we have constructed a 'dug out' city, where everybody lives one above the other.'

Lieutenant Stewart Hansen, an architect from Williamstown Victoria - 7 February 1915.

Ours is a history anyone would be proud of whether they have relatives who fought or not.

Even if you are new to Australia and want to become a citizen, our history would then become yours, our heritage would then become yours, and you would have the right to adopt our past as your own just as you have decided to adopt our country as your own.

Always remember, being truly Australian is a state of mind not a country of origin.

If you are willing to give this country your undivided loyalty and you are willing to fight to preserve our way of life then we welcome you to join us and make the history of this country yours.

We must be certain as the years grow longer since the days that gave birth to the ANZAC legacy, that we do not allow the facts to be tarnished by the desires of those who were not there and seek to damage the image of so many brave Australians to whom we owe so much.

It is particularly fitting I speak of these things now, as yesterday was the tenth anniversary of the Vietnam Veterans' Welcome Home Parade, and never before in our history were our veterans so disgracefully treated as those who served in Vietnam.

That it took fifteen years to properly welcome the diggers home amounts to shame we will always bear.

I only hope they can find it in their hearts to forgive us.

I don't think anyone wants to go to war and certainly Australians do not wish to kill or be killed but when duty has called, Australians have answered that call overwhelmingly.

In World War 1, Australia fielded the only all volunteer army.

In World War 2, the vast majority were volunteers, and when Vietnam came along many who went did so as volunteers, others fulfilled their duty as National Servicemen.

It would be remiss of me not to mention those who fought in Malaya and Borneo or in what has often been called the forgotten war, Korea, where some 300 Australians lost their lives and through the courage of third battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, names like Kapyong were forever etched in our history.

While Korea may have been called the forgotten war Vietnam was certainly the first war where our diggers came home to verbal and physical assault.

The rampant lunatics of the day called them rapists and murderers.

They spat on them and hurled red paint at them and even as I say this now I wonder how those brave Australians could ever forgive their country for the way they were treated.

Perhaps the diggers know the people who treated them like that were not representative of the way Australians think.

They were a rabble of mindless creatures who did not deserve to be called Australians, and not unlike their modern day counterparts who have turned out to attack the decent ordinary Australians who chose to come here and listen today.

You can be certain the various communist groups and their allies in the ACTU have been doing this for a long time.

The movements behind the rabble out front here today honed their skills abusing and assaulting our diggers as they returned to what should have been a heroes' welcome.

Thousands of Australians served in Vietnam, 520 died there.

Maybe they shouldn't have been sent, maybe it wasn't our fight, but even if that is true, it doesn't in any way lessen their suffering, or their sacrifice. They bled the same blood as Australians who fought in the wars that may have seemed more acceptable, or necessary.

Duty does not choose its field of conflict.

Our diggers that fought and died facing terrible odds at Long Tan and other places in Vietnam, deserve our gratitude just as much as their fathers and grandfathers who fought and bled up to their waists in mud in the jungles of New Guinea.

Friends tell me that coming home from Vietnam and the many years that followed were much worse than the time they spent with their lives at risk on active service.

Family members and friends just didn't understand what they were going through.

In some cases even their dads and grandads who had fought in wars before them couldn't relate to why the feeling was so different for their sons and grandsons.

At least in Vietnam they were surrounded by their mates.

The diggers of Vietnam are now mostly in their fifties and they have their own children and grandchildren.

What must they tell them of the war?

No doubt like most who served they have a tendency not to say very much and in their case that is particularly understandable when you consider how much we hurt them.

All our returned servicemen and women are living history and the time will come when they are no longer with us.

Already the FIRST ANZACs are all but gone.

The story must be told, and passed down from generation to generation for the time will come when the Internationalists will wash away the truth of our history and replace it with lies that suit the purpose of destroying our beliefs, our pride and our heritage.

Without the history of the people we have been, there will not be a future for the people we should be.

To have our history taken from us is to have our future taken as well. We cannot allow all that has been done, to in the end, amount to nothing.

We must encourage the teaching of our history, the meaning of our ANZAC spirit and the understanding of the great sacrifice and debt we can only honour and repay by remembering.

Anyone who lives in Australia has a great deal to be grateful for, and it is our responsibility, those of us who truly feel ourselves to be Australians, to ensure we do not lose quietly by stealth, what so many fought so loudly in the open to preserve.

I wonder what those FIRST ANZACs think of the Australia of 1997. How different it is to the small country they sailed away from in the early days of World War 1 - waving their slouch hats at their families and sweethearts on the dock.

Sixty thousand did not return. A further one hundred and fifty thousand were wounded.

World War 2 was not much different - a bit more modern and much of it closer to Australia with the threat of Invasion from the Japanese.

Yes, on that occasion war even touched our shores, with sporadic shelling from submarines, the attack on Sydney Harbour and the devastating raids on Darwin.

The same slouch hats waved, families cheered and mothers and sweethearts cried on the dock.

Forty thousand did not return. A further seventy thousand were wounded.

All the wars that followed tell similar human stories and we must think ourselves lucky that from the Gulf, they all returned.

How much have we forgotten.

How much have we never been taught.

In each and every one of those who served there is the truth of living history.

We must make certain their sacrifice, their deaths, their wounds, their emotional scars and the pain of those who lost them is never forgotten or distorted or allowed to somehow reflect a history of convenient political lies.

What would those who did not return think of the Australia of 1997 - not very much I fear.

They went to war to ensure the safety, security and future of their loved ones, of their un-born children.

They fought to preserve our country and our way of life.

Many would wonder how we could fight so hard and be so victorious in war, only to lay down and be beaten so easily in peace.

Fellow Australians,

Too much of our country has been sold, indeed much of it has been given away.

You may ask what is our government doing?

Well for the last ten days they have tried to score points on each other by each trying to label the other as the bigger thief in the travel rorts scandal.

While I would be the first to acknowledge the need for accountability, that has not been the substance of the debate. Rather it has all focussed on petty political point scoring that has shown both Liberal and Labor for the distracted and self seeking traitors they are.

It is worth noting one Sydney Newspaper's report which cited that while this bullying and bickering was going on, our foreign debt rose 765 million, 540 small businesses went broke, 1500 full-time jobs disappeared, 60 women died of breast cancer and 58 Australians committed suicide.

Ask what the Liberals and Labor are doing.

I can tell you they are doing nothing other than looking after themselves and their pensions.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

The government tells us we are lucky to have so much foreign investment because of the jobs the multinationals provide, but is that the future the government approves of for our children - that they will work for the profit of foreigners - will that be all they have?

There is an argument for foreign investment, there is no argument for foreign control.

We have so much in this country, and yet our government trades away our inheritance for a place on the International Stage.

We have nearly a million people unemployed, probably another million under-employed and over seven hundred thousand children living in families where neither parent has a job but despite this and our rising foreign debt, our government can still find 1.4 billion dollars to give away in foreign aid just in this year alone.

We must put Economic Nationalism back on the agenda.

The so called level playing field of free trade cannot be successfully applied between countries with vastly different standards of living.

If the government insists on pursuing these policies of Economic Rationalism our standard of living will continue to fall and unemployment will continue to rise.

Australia cannot compete with cheap foreign workforces.

Australian workers cannot compete with countries whose workers are paid forty cents an hour or a few dollars a day.

Without Nationalistic policies to foster and protect Australian Industry and Manufacturing the Australian worker will be a thing of the past and any suggestion they will be retrained into high technology jobs is a nonsense, those jobs don't exist, and won't exist.

We must come to terms with the fact we need a diversity of industry to provide the types of jobs that will cover the varying levels of skill.

We must acknowledge that not every person will go to university, and if they did, there simply wouldn't be enough tertiary skills related jobs to go around.

The current policy of educating people into jobs doesn't work because the jobs don't exist.

All we are doing is making education a competitive component for jobseekers to contend with, as jobs that were once taken by high school graduates are now the property of those with university degrees.

Many of our unemployed simply do courses that lead to other courses, and nowhere else.

Unemployment is not just a single issue but in fact the issue that causes so much of the stress and strain in our society leading to substance abuse, crime, family breakdown and suicide.

The long term unemployed, young people in particular, are faced with such hopelessness they turn to avenues of escape secure citizens would never consider.

We must re-vitalise apprenticeships and make young Australians understand it is OK to be a carpenter or a mechanic or a plumber or to pursue any trade.

It is OK to be bank teller or a council worker or a bus driver.

The most important thing is to have a job because that is a start.

You must have a start and from there how far you go is up to you, but you must have a start.

The dole will lead nowhere. A job will allow you a base from which to launch your life.

More and more Australian companies are being sold or moving overseas because they can no longer compete.

This has to stop.

Those lost jobs cannot be replaced under current government policies - policies that have devastated our country and ruined countless Australians' lives for at least the last twenty five years.

We must get Australia working again, and we can only do this by re-juvinating industry, manufacturing and the rural sector.

We must get off the level playing field as we are the only ones on it.

The rest of the world is laughing at us as we sell them our land, give them our jobs, and then send them foreign aid.

What fools we have been, what fools we are.

I ask again, what would the FIRST ANZACs think of what we have done.

We must have Australian jobs in Australian companies on Australian soil.

We must reduce the tax burden on ordinary Australians, provide business with tax and infrastructure incentives and have a truly National Bank to provide low interest loans to small business and farmers.

We must re-build and re-vitalise all that is Australian - our wealth, our strength, our patriotism.

We must honour the deeds and memory of those who have given us so much so we would be free by making Australia the proud, successful land of opportunity they loved and fought to preserve.

We must do this for them and for their children and grandchildren and ourselves and our children and grandchildren.

We must do it now.

And at the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them.

Lest we forget.
reply by
just facts
8/7/2002 (20:17)
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To the 'Hanson' quoter:

Now where did you get your unattributed story from: The National Review, from: supportisrael.info
or: how_to_help_israel.tripod.com

It's too bad the North Vietnamese forgot to read Mr. Victor Hanson.
reply by
Gabriel
8/7/2002 (21:42)
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Bill Seif - Jonathon Pollard is an SOB. Let him rot in prison.

Secretary of Defense Weinberger submitted a 43-page, top secret document to the sentencing judge, Aubrey Robinson, demanding life in prison for Pollard, a sentence he did in fact receive.

What was in that document no one knows. It is, however, thought that in that document Weinberger accused Pollard of providing American military secrets not only to Israel -- an ally -- but also to the Soviets. It is on this basis that Pollard was sentenced.

Since then Weinberger's contention has been proved wrong as over the last several years two Americans, Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanson, (one with CIA and the other with the FBI) have been found to be supplying Russia with American secrets for decades. The information they provided resulted in the death of about a dozen American agents.


Hey Bill - Ya think we better take care of all those Catholics, since Hanson was a fixture in his church?

How about those Protestants, like Ames?



Hey Lynette - Do you feel equally outraged that Jews aren't allowed to even enter Saudi Arabia? Or how about the the 700,000 Middle Eastern Jews that were forced from their homes by their friendly Muslim neighbors?

Come on old girl, don't be selective with your outrage. try being consistent.
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
8/8/2002 (1:12)
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Re: ADAM is having PMS problems too folks--( See Johnny 'C' it's a national problem among the Zionists and Israel apologists )-- ADAM has the gonads to say; 'MUSLEM ARABS WILL NEVER EVER LIKE JEWS NO MATTER WHAT JEWS DO IN ORDER TO BRING PEACE.

Jew's BRING PEACE!!!!!!!!!

Excuse me ADAM, I have to vomit!

Pssst, please pass me the plastic wrap off the FEDEX overnight Midol shipment I sent you Johnny 'C,' OK?

:( Pssst, glad you finally received it! :)

TAC,
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
8/8/2002 (1:25)
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Re: GABRIEL still sputters his Zionist line;

GABE: 'Bill - How come there is an Muslim General in the Israeli Defense Force.

TAC: Where's he serving at GABE, Brooklyn?! :)))

TheAZCowBoy,

AKA: 'El Hombre!' ( thanks GABE, love the name you gave me )--can I be christianed 'El Hombre' at the 'Shoot off the Jew's 8-balls' pool hall in East 'Arab' Jerusalem (or) does it have to be a barmitzva with all the cutting and bleeding? :( smiling :)

TheAZCowBoy,
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
8/8/2002 (1:51)
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Re: As usual GABE, the Zionist sissy is wrong in his contention; 'Since then Weinberger's contention has been proved wrong as over the last several years two Americans, Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanson, (one with CIA and the other with the FBI) have been found to be supplying Russia with American secrets for decades. The information they provided resulted in the death of about a dozen American agents.

TAC sez: 'Liar, liar, pants on fire!'

The truth is that low life Zionist traitor Jonathan Pollard gave Israel TOP SECRET intelligence data ( over 80,000 pages! ) downloaded in part from the US KH-1 spy satellite and this included TOP SECRET intelligence data which included the US launch codes for the US' USSR ICBM targets we had precomputed.

Also, the names of 12 KGB agents working for the US CIA/NSA were revealed by the Israeli's to the Russian government. Of these 12 US 'moles' 9 were assassinated by the KGB within 10 days of receiving the information from Yitzak Shamir--Israeli PM, who was playing the odds across the middle in an effort to gain more access to Jews in Russia and to get the flow of semi and non-Kosher Jews ( as it worked out ) to Israel.

Natanyahu pushed Clinton to release Pollard during the WYE PLANTATION meetings in 2000--but Willie told the Zionist low life to go FUG HIMSELF!

Meanwhile; Esther Pollard, receives an Israeli pension and now lives in Canada where the US government can't monitor her blood money AKA her 'Israeli pension' and her bank records on a regular basis.

Pollard had since married a cell mate, through the help of the synagogue 'Anshei Israel' in Virginia; a big black 386 lb. rapist and 8 time loser sexual pervert--and has lived happily ever after---rarely writing to Esther about his 'love' problems.

TheAZCowBoy,
reply by
Bill
8/8/2002 (7:18)
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Gab,

TAC does a good job of describing the details concerning Pollard. Ames and Hanson should do the same sentence. The difference between them and Pollard is that Pollard represents an on going attempt of the Israeli government, through AIPAC and other powerful groups to essentially OVERLY influence and run the US government. Gabriel, I am not one who hates Jews or anyone for that matter. But it does appear to me that our policies towards Israel are increasingly putting the US in a bad position with the Muslim World, who should really love the US because of all the oil that we buy. Because we support Israel, and supply Israel with their weapons, we (the US) has the blood of all the Palestinians on our hands too. A too small percentage of the population of Israel and the US is running US policy and that is a dangerous thing, and the US citizens will of course pay the price
reply by
Paul (from germany)
8/8/2002 (9:02)
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I guess we have not a Palestine-Israel problem but an USA Israel one.

Some people give answers to my simple questions, but mostly I can read about satanic muslims and barbaric arabs. All I can read is that there is a big difference between arab and israeli actions.
Why do I have the feeling that it is easier for the most westeners to excuse Israels actions? What makes them untouchable?
Do those people really imagine that they have non-tolerance and support a new dimension of apartheid and genocide?
Don´t let me be missunderstood, but why is it so easy to condem the one side and not the others too? This mixsture from religion, education and missinformation is like a thick wall in front of our minds. What is neccessary to tear down these walls?
reply by
Lynette
8/8/2002 (10:32)
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Hey Lynette - Do you feel equally outraged that Jews aren't allowed to even enter Saudi Arabia? Or how about the the 700,000 Middle Eastern Jews that were forced from their homes by their friendly Muslim neighbors?

Come on old girl, don't be selective with your outrage. try being consistent.



My son in law and my daughter went to Mecca two years ago. If I had have gone with them I too would not have been allowed into their Holy city. So the Jews are not allowed in-as a Christian neither am I. I guess 'thems the rules' with the Saudi's. My daughter said they treat non Wahabbi Muslims like second class citizens anyway. The Saudi's think they are 'top sh*t' in the Muslim world coz they have all the holy sites of note in that religion. Anyhow the Jews in Israel drove out the same number of arabs back in 1948 and destroyed over 400 villiages and towns. BTW-please don't tell me they left voluntarily either, or I will gag. Israel has the might and the power to initiate monumental change in the region, but the Israeli masses have allowed AriHELL Sharon to continue with the status quo. With one stroke of the pen saying that the settlements will CEASE forthwith, that in itself would make a powerful statement to the Palestinians, the arab world, the Islamic world and just the whole F*%king world in general that Israel was DEAD SERIOUS about making peace with their native neighbours. Millions of people around the world such as myself will NEVER believe that Israel has any intentions of playing fair pool with the hapless Pals. The Pals know it, the arab and Islamic world know it, and the entire Gentile/Christian world knows it too.
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
8/8/2002 (14:28)
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To answer your question in 500 words or less ( jes kidding ), it's a white boy, brown boy game PAUL ( From Germany ).

The White Jews boys ( Muslim Kosovars included for some strange reason ) got life---the Arab's get death!

Racist America--land of milk and honey except for the minorites!

Like your Germany 1939.

Favorite line here in the South Western USA:

'Where's your green card Gringo?'

The 'original' wetbacks form Europe go ballistic!

TAC,
reply by
The Real Lanette
8/8/2002 (24:23)
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Don't bother trying to reason with Lynette. She continues to prove that she is beyone reasoning. She works on emotion alone.


Don't give her the attention she craves. You'll just encourage her school girl antics.