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Topic: mossad guilty

topic by Balder 9/28/2001 (5:57)

reply top RAWALPINDI, Pakistan, Sept. 26 (UPI) -- The Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the United States were perpetrated by renegade U.S. Air Force elements working in conjunction with Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service, according to the retired Pakistani general who is closest to the Taliban and Osama bin Laden. Gen. Hameed Gul, head of Inter Services Intelligence, the equivalent of a CIA-cum-FBI combination, during the war against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, spent two weeks in the war-torn country immediately prior to Sept. 11. He has been acting as 'strategic adviser' to Pakistan's extremist religious political parties. Four religious leaders left his house in the army's principal garrison town as this reporter arrived at 9:30 p.m. Tuesday. The interview lasted 90 minutes. Already countless millions of Muslims believe that the World Trade Center and Pentagon suicide attacks were part of a Mossad plot to force the United States into confrontation with the Muslim world. Now Gul has added a new disinformation wrinkle to the plot. And what Gul says or writes is taken at face value by religious leaders and is repeated in thousands of mosques at Friday prayers. In an exclusive interview with United Press International, the fundamentalist general said it is now clear that there was also a plot by U.S. Air Force officers against the Pentagon. 'The twin towers were first attacked at 8:45 a.m.,' he said, 'and four flights were diverted from their assigned air space, and yet Air Force jets didn't scramble until 10 a.m. That smacks of a small-scale Air Force rebellion, a coup attempt against the Pentagon perhaps? Radars are jammed, transponders fail. No IFF -- friend or foe identification -- challenge ... This was clearly an inside job. (President) Bush was afraid and rushed to the shelter of a nuclear bunker. '(Bush) clearly feared a nuclear situation. Who could that have been? Will that also be hushed up in the investigation, like the Warren report after the Kennedy assassination?' Gul said that his friend bin Laden had sworn to him on the Koran that he was not involved. 'From a cave inside a mountain or a peasant's hovel,' Gul asked, how could bin Laden mount such a sophisticated operation? 'Let's be serious,' he said with a smile. 'Mossad and its American associates are the obvious culprits,' he added by asking, 'Who benefits from the crime?' Asked why Israel would benefit, Gul replied, 'Israel knows it has a short shelf-life before it is overwhelmed by demographics (and it) has now handed the (Bush administration) the opportunity it has been waiting for to consolidate America's imperial grip on the Gulf and acquire control of the Caspian basin by extending its military presence in Central Asia.' Gul said the U.S. plan was 'the destabilization of Pakistan because it is a Muslim nuclear state. The U.S. wants to isolate Pakistan from China as part of its containment policy. President Nixon's book 'The Real War' said China would be the superpower of the 21st century. The U.S. is also creating hostility between Pakistan and Afghanistan, two Muslim states, to reverse the perception that the Islamic world now has its own nuclear weapons. Bush 43 doesn't realize he is being manipulated by people who understand geopolitics. He is not leading but being led. All he can do is think in terms of the wanted-dead-or-alive culture which is how Hollywood conditions the masses to think and act.' 'Bush 43' is actually Washington shorthand for distinguishing President George W. Bush from his father. President George W. Bush is the 43rd president: George Bush Sr. was the 41st. Gul admitted that he turned against America when the United States walked away from Afghanistan following the Soviet withdrawal in 1989. 'We were all pro-American (during the war) but then America left us in the lurch and everything went to pieces, including Afghanistan.' Asked if the United States was now his enemy, Gul replied, 'Is the U.S. national interest in contradiction with the Muslim world? The U.S. needs oil, as do its European allies. You have between 6 and 8 million American Muslims and their ranks are growing. About the same number in Europe. Israel aside, we are America's natural allies. Professor Sam Huntington in his (book) 'Clash of Civilizations' puts Confucius and Judeo-Christians in one corner, and us in the other. His prescription is wrong but is being adopted by Bush 43 who has now put 60 countries on his hit list. This is the diabolical school that wants to launch an anti-Muslim 'crusade.' Muslims understood what Bush meant when he used that word. We need a meeting, not a clash, of civilizations.' If Pakistan gives the U.S. base facilities, Gul warned, 'we will have a national upheaval' and if the United States attacks Afghanistan, there will be 'a general jihad (holy war) ... and Pakistan will be engulfed in the firestorm. So I can only hope that cooler heads will prevail in Washington.' Asked to consider the possibility that bin Laden -- or OBL as he is referred to in Pakistani conversations -- was lying to him and is indeed guilty as charged by the United States, Gul said, 'If Taliban are given irrefutable evidence of his guilt, I am in favor of a fair trial. In America one is entitled to a jury of peers. But he has no American peers. The Taliban would not object, in the event of a prima face case, to an international Islamic court meeting in The Hague. They would extradite Osama to the Netherlands.'

reply by Rod 9/28/2001 (15:08)

reply top So your theory is that Isreal, who you agree is totally dependent on America for its support, risked its own lonely lifeline by associating itself with an attack on the United States? If you reversed the roles 180 degrees switching the attacked and the accused and tried to sell an illogical and parinoid arguement like that to the American people, they'd be laughing so hard by the fourth paragraph the 'journalist' would be fired by the end of the day. I can only assume that this stuff plays in other parts of the world and helps a large population live with itself after something like this happens. I guess that's another difference between the two cultures.

reply by Sharif 9/28/2001 (17:42)

reply top A few points in response to Rod: 1) A journalist's job is to report the news, it is to report what people are doing and saying, not to include or exclude valid angles or points. Saying a journalist would be fired for publishing other then the two dimensional narrow minded 'status-quo' is proof of censorship, meddling and quite contrary to the principles of 'free' press. The word 'integrity' has no meaning in western media. 2) Now re-read 'I guess that's another difference between the two cultures.' in the context of my first point. 3) Pakistan has as much proof of Israel's involvment as the United States has of Osama's. It's purely a matter of speculation on both sides -- and the Pakistani argument is not without merit. The question is this: Who has motive? - Israel gets the Americans to fight their wars. - The CIA and the American military get a 40 billion dollar budget increase. - American hawks get the go ahead to occupy the last non-Americanised region of the world and complete their global empire. - Of course Osama and his crew. The problem with your post is that you assume the American establishment doesn't want a war in South Asia. I'm sure the American government has been looking to attack this region for a while, but there obviously would not be public support for such a move. So they decided to use their 'set up' skills perfected on Iraq during the past few decades. What better way to convince the American public a military building in South Asia is necessary then a major attack at home? That's not to say they did it, only that the motive is there. With regards to Israel, all of Israel's more threateneing neighbors are on USA's list of terrorist sponsoring countries -- a comprehensive attack on terrorism will eliminate all of Israel's foes... of course it's to their benefit, more so then anyone else.

reply by Balder 9/29/2001 (8:25)

reply top Some info for Rod and others who are obviously confused by the lies from our jewish controlled media. Below, I offer for your consideration, a view from a different source. Perhaps this will clear up any misconceptions you harbour. Balder ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This 1998 interview proves that Ehud Barak, Shimon Peres and Binyamin Netanyahu were all liars when they went on television in Britain and the US from Sept. 11 onward to declare that Osama bin Laden's campaign has little or nothing to do with 'Israel' and Jews, and only reflects 'historic Muslim enmity toward generic Western civilization.' Au contraire, Americans are targets because of America's bloody support for war-Zionism and the brutal Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands. America's support for the fiendish Israelis is a curse, not a blessing on America. Excerpts from the Interview with Osama bin Laden: Western forces... support the Jewish and Zionist plans for expansion of what is called the Great Israel. Surely, their presence is not out of concern over their interests in the region....Their presence has no meaning save one, and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine... ...For over half a century, Muslims in Palestine have been slaughtered and assaulted and robbed of their honor and of their property. Their houses have been blasted, their crops destroyed. And the strange thing is that any act on their part to avenge themselves or to lift the injustice befalling them causes great agitation in the United Nations which hastens to call for an emergency meeting only to convict the victim and to censure the wronged and the tyrannized, whose children have been killed and whose crops have been destroyed and whose farms have been pulverized. ... It is not enough for the... people (of the West) to show pain when they see our children being killed in Israeli raids launched by American planes, nor does this serve the purpose. What they ought to do is change their governments which attack our countries. ...The enmity between us and the Jews goes far back in time and is deep rooted. There is no question that war between the two of us is inevitable. For this reason it is not in the interest of Western governments to expose...their people to all kinds of retaliation for almost nothing. It is hoped that people of those countries will initiate a positive move and force their governments not to act on behalf of other states and other sects... The leaders in America and in other countries as well have fallen victim to Jewish Zionist blackmail. They have mobilized their people against Islam and against Muslims. These are portrayed in such a manner as to drive people to rally against them. The truth is that the whole Muslim world is the victim of international terrorism, engineered by America at the United Nations. We are a nation whose sacred symbols have been looted and whose wealth and resources have been plundered. It is normal for us to react against the forces that invade our land and occupy it ... . ...Once again, I have to stress the necessity of focusing on the Americans and the Jews for they represent the spearhead with which the members of our religion have been slaughtered. The Americans started it and retaliation and punishment should be carried out following the principle of reciprocity, especially when women and children are involved. Through history, America has not been known to differentiate between the military and the civilians or between men and women or adults and children. Those who threw atomic bombs and used the weapons of mass destruction against Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the Americans. Can the bombs differentiate between military (men) and women and infants and children? America has no religion that can deter her from exterminating whole peoples. Your position against Muslims in Palestine is despicable and disgraceful. America has no shame. ... We believe that the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Americans. Nothing could stop you except perhaps retaliation in kind... As to what you said about the attempt to assassinate President Clinton, it is not surprising. What do you expect from people attacked by Clinton, whose sons and mothers have been killed by Clinton? Do you expect anything but treatment by reciprocity? ... Allah has granted the Muslim people and the Afghani mujahedeen, and those with them, the opportunity to fight the Russians and the Soviet Union. ... They were defeated by Allah and were wiped out. There is a lesson here. The Soviet Union entered Afghanistan late in December of '79. The flag of the Soviet Union was folded once and for all on the 25th of December just 10 years later. It was thrown in the waste basket. Gone was the Soviet Union forever. We are certain that we shall - with the grace of Allah - prevail over the Americans and over the Jews, as the Messenger of Allah promised us in an authentic prophetic tradition when He said the Hour of Resurrection shall not come before Muslims fight Jews and before Jews hide behind trees and behind rocks. ...We are certain - with the grace of Allah - that we shall prevail over the Jews and over those fighting with them. Today however, our battle against the Americans is far greater than our battle was against the Russians. Americans have committed unprecedented stupidity. They have attacked Islam and its most significant sacrosanct symbols ... . We anticipate a black future for America. Instead of remaining United States, it shall end up separated states and shall have to carry the bodies of its sons back to America. After our victory in Afghanistan and the defeat of the oppressors who had killed millions of Muslims, the legend about the invincibility of the superpowers vanished. Our boys no longer viewed America as a superpower. So, when they left Afghanistan, they went to Somalia and prepared themselves carefully for a long war. They had thought that the Americans were (tough) like the Russians, so they trained and prepared. They were stunned when they discovered how low was the morale of the American soldier. America had entered with 30,000 soldiers in addition to thousands of soldiers from different countries in the world... As I said, our boys were shocked by the low morale of the American soldier and they realized that the American soldier was just a paper tiger. He was unable to endure the strikes that were dealt to his army, so he fled, and America had to stop all its bragging and all that noise it was making in the press after the Gulf War in which it destroyed the infrastructure and the milk and dairy industry that was vital for the infants and the children and the civilians and blew up dams which were necessary for the crops people grew to feed their families. Proud of this destruction, America assumed the titles of world leader and master of the New World Order. After a few blows, it forgot all about those titles and rushed out of Somalia in shame and disgrace, dragging the bodies of its soldiers.... I was in Sudan when this happened. Our mothers and daughters and sons are slaughtered every day with the approval of America and its support. And, while America blocks the entry of weapons into Islamic countries, it provides the Israelis with a continuous supply of arms allowing them thus to kill and massacre more Muslims. Your religion does not forbid you from committing such acts, so you have no right to object to any response or retaliation that reciprocates your own actions. But, and in spite of this, our retaliation is directed primarily against the soldiers only and against those standing by them. Our religion forbids us from killing innocent people such as women and children. This, however, does not apply to women fighters. A woman who puts herself in the same trench with men, gets what they get. ... Interviewer: Do you have a message for the American people? Bin Laden: I say to them that they have put themselves at the mercy of a disloyal government, and this is most evident in Clinton's administration...We believe that this administration represents Israel inside America. Take the sensitive ministries such as the...Ministry of Defense and the CIA, you will find that the Jews have the upper hand in them. They make use of America to further their plans for the world... American presence in the Gulf provides support to the Jews and protects their rear. And while millions of Americans are homeless and destitute and live in abject poverty, their government is busy occupying our land and building new settlements and helping Israel build new settlements in the (region that was the) point of departure for our Prophet's midnight journey to the seven heavens. America throws her own sons in the land of the two Holy Mosques for the sake of protecting Jewish interests. ... The (Federal) government is leading America towards hell. ... We say to the Americans as people and to American mothers, if they cherish their lives and if they cherish their sons, they must elect an American patriotic government that caters to their interests, not the interests of the Jews. If the present injustice continues...it will inevitably move the battle to American soil... This is my message to the American people. I urge them to find a serious administration that acts in their interest and does not attack people and violate their honor and pilfer their wealth. ... --OSAMA BIN LADEN, 1998 Complete interview online at: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html

reply by qj 9/30/2001 (16:41)

reply top Re. Rod's rhetoric question: 'So your theory is that Isreal, who you agree is totally dependent on America for its support, risked its own lonely lifeline by associating itself with an attack on the United States?' . . . . .I wonder if Rod has ever heard of USS Liberty?

reply by Rod 10/3/2001 (16:15)

reply top Yes I've heard of it, I know a lot about history in fact. But that was an overt act of the Israeli Armed Forces, there was no 'massive plot'. People, your suggesting a cover-up/conspearacy here that makes the wildest delussions of the Kennedy Assassination conspiracy theorists look like playtime with Barny. Sure there are a lot of theories. Sure you can post a lot of information to support any theory, but at what point does a crazy idea become crazy. This is simply over the line by a long shot. And all these countries who have their own intel. services? none of them are going to figure this out? because Mossad is just that good? I mean come on. We are beyond the pale of reality at this point.

reply by rod 10/3/2001 (16:21)

reply top Sure there is motive. China also has motive. North Korea has motive. Russia has maybe the best motive. Are we printing REAL possibilities here, following a story? Or are we printing what someone wants to here? If you just printing what people want to hear, you loose credibility with me, I don't care what your agenda is. I was taught to look though, past agendas.

reply by Sharif 10/4/2001 (8:27)

reply top Russia has the best motive? Cmon.. With regards to you 'because the Mossad is just that good' comment, I have one thing to say to you -- Who killed Kennedy?

reply by Sharif 10/4/2001 (8:29)

reply top And the attack on the USS Liberty was most certainly not OVERT!! That's insanity. There are a new excellent article on this website about it. Just search for 'USS Liberty' at the top of most MER pages.

reply by Rod 10/7/2001 (14:08)

reply top By overt I mean that to my knowledge, and I could be wrong on this but I believe my memory is accurate, the planes and ships involved in the attack were clearly marked with Israeli insignia. That seems pretty overt to me. Do I think it was some mistake? No. But I hardly see it as some sneaky Jewish plot.

reply by qj 10/8/2001 (1:16)

reply top Here is an extract from Carol A. Valentine's post ( http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=p04320422b7e4cbe34fbb%40%5B66.44.63.179%5D === BEGIN QUOTE === We all surely know that the US and its allies would not conspire to attack America! Or do we? The Army's School of Advanced Military Studies (SAMS ) thinks Israel is capable of doing exactly that. On September 10, 2001, The Washington Times ran a front page story which quoted SAMS officers: 'Of the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service, the SAMS officers say: 'Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target US forces and make it look like a Palestinian/Arab act.'' ('US troops would enforce peace under Army study,' Washington Times, Sept.. 10, 2001, pg. A1, 9.) Just 24 hours after this story appeared, the Pentagon was hit and the Arabs were being blamed. These SAMS officers are obviously interested in protecting their country, but not all Americans are. Some are traitors and pay allegiance to Israel. Recall the June 8, 1967, Israeli attack on the USS Liberty, and American complicity in the attack. === END QUOTE ===

reply by ... Resources... 6/22/2002 (2:36)

reply top Go to.. (1).. worldmessenger.20m.com ..(2).. whatreallyhappened.com ..(3).. ussliberty.org ...(4).. reportersnotebook.com ... Message Board ...

reply by ... Resources... 6/22/2002 (2:36)

reply top Go to.. (1).. worldmessenger.20m.com ..(2).. whatreallyhappened.com ..(3).. ussliberty.org ...(4).. reportersnotebook.com ... Message Board ...