OH,WHY DO THEY HATE US SO?????
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AuthorTopic: OH,WHY DO THEY HATE US SO?????
topic by
Anne
1/18/2002 (10:19)
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Like a bolt of lightening from the skies. Golly gosh, the 'Riddle of the Sphinx' is the most pressing issue that reverberates thoughout the American community. We wade through volumes of books on Islam and Israel , sit transfixed to our TV's watching endless doco's on cable. We can't get enough of Ophrah,Lerhner and Larry King for the all important clues. Like Sherlock Holmes, we scurry to find our pipe and magnifying glass to search for evidence. Oh plueeeeze .........analysis in paralysis, by the eggbert's sitting in our hallowed halls of higher learning.Well my friends, it like this ......it boils down to ONE little country called Israel and our continued presence in the land of Saud that continues to infuriate the arabs and the Islamic world in general.
reply by
John Calvin
1/18/2002 (10:29)
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Central Africa: Quagmire In Training
The Next Anti-American Hot Spot?

David Case is the executive editor of TomPaine.com.

Editor's Note: Scott Campbell directs the Congo office of the International Human Rights Law Group. We caught up with him by cell phone in Bukavu, a Rwandan-held city in eastern Congo.

Tompaine.com: In the U.S., commentators often refer to September 11th as the day that changed the world. How have things changed in Congo?

Scott Campbell: Frankly, things have changed very little. The U.S. embassy continues to build bigger walls, though they had started that before September 11. Other than that, not much changed.

The attacks were front-page news in all the newspapers, and there were outpourings of outrage and denouncing of the terrorist attacks. My Muslim friends were as equally outraged as my Christian friends. We got a lot of letters from Congolese expressing their condolences.

At the same time, though, there was a lot of understanding as to why it happened. There's so much outrage in general at U.S. foreign policy -- the U.S. is definitely seen as the world's bully here -- and so many of our domestic and international policies have created injustice, that there was a feeling that, well, the U.S. had it coming. People were in tears, profoundly upset, but they understand why others could be angry with the U.S.

TP.c: Why is that?

Campbell: In the case of Central Africa, the U.S. is pumping a lot of assistance into Rwanda and Uganda, and those countries are using this support to invade and occupy about half of Congo, where they have committed gross violations of human rights and international law for the past three years.

To the Congolese, it seems that the rest of the world hasn't noticed their plight. Or if they have noticed either they don't care, or they support the war. Many Congolese believe that the U.S. -- at least originally -- supported the invasion of Congo.

The International Rescue Committee estimates that the war has caused some 2.5 million extra deaths since 1998, not just from combat, but also from disease and hardship associated with it. People put that on the back of the U.S. because of our support of the countries that occupy Congo.

TP.c: Do people hold the U.S. responsible above all other countries?

Campbell: Yes, the United States and the United Kingdom, both of which have pumped in an enormous amount of aid to Rwanda and Uganda. The aid has served a lot of good within those countries, but it has been given without any conditions. So Rwanda and Uganda have had extra funds lying around that they could divert to the war effort in Congo.

TP.c: Are there other ways people hold the US responsible for the war?

Campbell: The U.S. provided some military support for Rwanda and Uganda over the past seven years, as well as aid though the World Bank and IMF. This assistance sends a political message, that Big Brother is watching and supports you. That's been really important and citizens and politicians in particular read in to such symbolic support. It has encouraged Rwanda and Uganda to act with impunity in Congo.

In fact, there's a long history of destructive policy in Congo. Shortly after independence in 1960, the U.S. was actively seeking out the assassination of Congo's first prime minister. Someone else beat us to it, but from 1960 onward the U.S. used Congo as a pawn in the Cold War. We pumped in a lot of aid for economic development and had a lot of business interests here. But neither the aid nor the investment did anything to benefit the Congolese people. It was done under the bloody dictatorship of Mobutu, and we never put conditions on our support, provided that he serve our purposes during the Cold War. There's a lot of resentment in the Congo from that.

reply by
John Calvin
1/18/2002 (10:32)
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thr 052
Mashhad-Friday Prayer-U.S. /POL/
 Provincial leader: Sept 11, U.S plot to exert global hegemony
Mashhad, Khorassan Prov, Jan 18, IRNA -- Interim Friday Prayer leader
of this northeast Iranian province said, 'September 11 U.S. terrorist
incidents were designed and carried out by the U.S. secret agencies
in order to assure exertion of America's full hegemony over the whole
world.'
Hojjatoleslam Mohammad Farzaneh argued, that is the way the
'free-minded intellectuals' think today around the globe.
He added, 'a large number of innocent individuals got killed
during the said inhumane attacks, which is of trivial importance for
the U.S. political system, since the U.S. politicians merely care
for exerting their hegemony over vaster areas and securing more
interests at any cost.'
Farzaneh said that the reason why the U.S. policy makers include
Iran in the list of the state sponsors of terrorism is that this
nation has succeeded to end the U.S. hegemony in this land relying on
endless power of Islam.
The Mashhad Friday Prayer leader added, 'the U.S. administration
attacked the defenseless Afghan nation soon after the September 11
terrorist attacks without presenting any reasonable proof for
interference of Afghans in those attacks and the American
bombardments that are still going on there have led to the death of at
least 20 thousand, mostly innocent, Afghans up to now.'
He said that the health and hygiene conditions in Afghanistan,
that has been under tough war conditions for 23 years is below the
minimum acceptable standards today and over 90 percent of the
oppressed Afghans are suffering from acute physical and mental
illnesses and stress, while that nation's life expectancy has already
decreased to 43 percent.
The prominent cleric asked, 'isn't it surprising that now, four
months after the beginning of the U.S. heavy bombardments and two
months after launching their land operations there neither bin Laden,
nor any of the top Al-Qaeda or Taliban leaders have been arrested
inside or outside Afghanistan?'
He added, 'that has been good excuse for the U.S. administration
to refrain from offering even one single dollar assistance to the
reconstruction cause of Afghanistan, in which most world countries
have hands for which the U.S. administration is naturally more
responsible, due to the heavy losses inflicted there during the U.S.
recent air raids.'
Farzaneh who is also the president of Razavi Islamic University
predicted a dark future for the U.S. military staff in Afghanistan
whom he said are already scared of Afghan masses, who will never
permit the Americans to exert their 'socio-political hegemony over
Afghanistan.'
Elsewhere in his sermons, Farzaneh referred to half a century of
criminal acts against Muslims, led by the Zionists in occupied
Palestine, that still goes on uninterrupted due to strong and
comprehensive U.S. backing.
The academician cleric set example of the Lebanese nation and that
country's Hizbullah Party that kicked out first the Americans and
then the racist-Zionists from their country resorting to least
possible financial and physical resorts arguing, 'no American or
Zionist authority can claim they gained slightest victories in that
country.'
Referring to the recent threats made by certain U.S. officials
against Iran, he said, 'the Americans have baseless hopes to gain
interests in Iran, which are mainly based on differences of opinion
among Iranian officials, poverty prevailing in certain parts of the
country, economic corruption and hedonistic tendencies among certain
groups of Iranians.'
The Mashhad Friday Prayer leader asked, 'why does (the U.S.
President George W.) Bush permit himself to use the word `must'
when talking of what he expects Iran to do today?'
And he himself replied, 'America is sure about the results of
its cultural onslaught, (the negative effects of) convenient and
well-off living conditions for the minority and economic austerity
for the majority of Iranians and the poverty of masses here.'
NA/NA/AR
End
::irna 18:24
reply by
Johgn Calvin
1/18/2002 (10:44)
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After World War Two the U.S. held the Irish-American poet Exra Pound in just such a concentration camp in Italy, prior to shipping him to the U.S. to try him for Treason ( he pleaded insanity and has held in a mental hospital for many years). One suspects, however, that AlQueda and Taliban proisoners will not be given a typewriter and be allow to compose poems while in detention, though many of their fello prisoners ( as was the case for Pound) undoubtedly face the gallows- if enough self-incriminating evidence can be extracted from them by torture.

Additionally, the U.S. has repeatedly condemned Castro for holding political prisoners in almost exactly the same conditions- though I don't believe he does it any more.

This article is along the lines of 'Why they grow to hate us more and more everyday.

Just retribution or an abuse of human rights? A big question, with only one answer in the US
By Rupert Cornwell
18 January 2002
Internal links

The controversy that has erupted over America's treatment of its Taliban and al- Qa'ida prisoners at Guantanamo Bay is more than just a spat about human rights. It reflects the increasingly complex post-Cold War relationship between the world's overarchingly dominant country and its European allies.

America believes it is conducting a righteous war to rid the world of a deadly enemy that will stop at nothing to achieve its fiendish ends. Europe, though, increasingly sees an arrogant superpower on the loose – one that after a brief, tactical flirtation with co-operation in the early stages of the war is back to its old unilateralist ways, safe in the knowledge that its power is unchallengeable.

There is, undoubtedly, truth in these charges. Donald Rumsfeld the Defence Secretary, makes clear America will do this its way, whether the world likes it or not.

Equally, however, the complaints reflect a jealousy and resentment of America's sheer power. This emerged in the not-uncommon European view after 11 September that the US somehow 'had it coming'. It cropped up, more justifiably, in the denunciations of the civilian casualties caused by the bombing campaign.

Now it is surfacing again, in the criticism of how America deals with its new prisoners, caging them in barbed wire pens half-open to the elements, with only a foam mat on the floor. Lost amid the polemics, however, is a genuine dilemma: how do you deal with some of the most dangerous people on earth? The prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are not genteel prisoners of conscience.

They are cut from similar cloth as the perpetrators of the attacks against New York and Washington that killed nearly 3,000 people, ready to sacrifice their lives if offered half the chance of a repeat. British critics might remember that even at its most ruthless, the IRA never used suicide bombers.

'These folks are ready to chew through the hydraulic wires of a C-17 to bring it down,' Richard Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, remarked when complaints first surfaced about how the detainees had been manacled and blindfolded during their 22-hour flight from Kandahar to Guantanamo Bay. According to US military officials, many of them are still threatening to kill captors and, as one drily remarked: 'We do not intend to let that happen.' And where else could they have gone? Afghanistan, where American and British troops are sleeping in tents, was clearly not an option. Nor was the US mainland itself, where their presence could have acted as a magnet for more terrorist outrages. Other US bases overseas either did not have the facilities or were not suitable.

British critics are vocal enough in their complaints about distant Guantanamo Bay; what would they have said if al-Qa'ida's finest had been corralled up at Greenham Common? To return Saudis, Pakistanis, Egyptians to their native countries could invite a justice far more summary and brutal than that being meted out by the US now – or, equally conceivably, virtual exoneration for fear that their punishment might set off domestic political unrest. From a logistical viewpoint, Guantanamo Bay is perfect: close to the mainland US, yet remote, protected by the ocean on one side and barbed wire and minefields on the other.

Grudgingly, a critic of America might accept these arguments. But they do not address another complaint: why does not the US formally declare its captives prisoners of war? After all America is fighting what it proclaims itself to be a 'war against terrorism'. Indeed, by construing 11 September as an 'act of war', President Bush invoked the right of self- defence contained in the United Nations charter. Thus the attack on Afghanistan, on whose battlefields the prisoners were taken. Surely, by any interpretation of the English language, they are prisoners of war.

Not so fast, the US says. War was never officially declared. The Pentagon maintains that those taken prisoner were not members of a formal Afghan army – though that is debatable in the case of Taliban soldiers. The al-Qa'ida fighters, obviously are different. Most of them were not Afghans, but 'mercenaries of faith' drawn from Arab and Islamic countries, and in at least three instances, from Britain. They wore no uniform, the Pentagon insists, and had no rank.

Hence the strained terms invented by US military spokesmen, of 'battlefield detainees' and 'unlawful combatants', phrases constructed to distinguish them from conventional prisoners of war. 'We are being guided by the Geneva conventions,' says Brigadier-General Mike Lehnert, in charge of security at Guantanamo Bay. The operative words of course are 'guided by'. In fact these sophistries have two serious purposes. First, if they were officially categorised as prisoners of war, Americans would lose their right to interrogate them beyond establishing their name, rank and military number. These men are being held, first and foremost, to help the hunt for new facts that can be fitted into the far-from complete mosaic of al-Qa'ida.

This explains why Washington has not yet released the names of those it is holding. Among them, Pentagon officials have hinted, are some fairly senior members of the terrorist organisation. Battlefield interrogators have done some preliminary work in Afghanistan. Now the FBI, the CIA and the Defence Intelligence Agency will have their own, far longer turn at Guantanamo Bay, an hour's flight from General Tommy Franks' Central Command in Tampa.

But there is a second, more subtle reason the detainees are not declared prisoners of war. The US is out to avenge 11 September, and this is a war of example. The world has seen how American military power has wrecked al-Qa'ida in Afghanistan. It is now seeing what happens to those who are taken prisoner. Rightly or wrongly, America calculates that others tempted to take up arms against it may have second thoughts.

In terms of diet and hygiene, the prisoners are not being treated especially badly. But as Mr Rumsfeld points out: 'We are not running a country club.' The question is where legitimate security requirements end and police state intimidation begins. Round-the-clock halogen lighting of cells may be defended as a sensible precaution. But sleep deprivation and constant light are also techniques of police states through the ages. The problem is less America taking the law into its own hands, more what law it chooses to behave by.
reply by
John Calvin
1/18/2002 (10:51)
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The above article is from the Independent. I don't endorse the 'balanced' view in the article. I think the concentration camp in Cuba is a complete fiasco which makes me sick to my stomach.
reply by
TheAZCowBoy
1/19/2002 (1:56)
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Re: Why do they hate us?

Still can't figure it out, huh?

Well, let's take last week for example. The IDF thugs bull doze 43 Palestinian homes in Gaza in the middle of the night leaving 550 Palestinian's homeless, dead, maimed and wounded, their personal possessions left in splinters and ready for the trash can. So what does the US do, nada!

If this was your home and your family and your worldly possessions, 'What would you do?'

Yassir ( excuse the pun ) kick Jewish arse--that's what!

'3,000 years and 150 nations and the arrogant incorrigibles still can't find room at the inn...and they want to blame the Palestinian's?

In the last week the US media has talked about the 'lull' in the killing---just 1 Jew get's it.

But during this same 'lull' 43 Palestinian civilian's and one malitia leader are murdered. So tonight the IDF thugs have Arafat's compound surrounded with Merkava tanks because the Paly's are fed up with Jewish terrorism and some brave young Palestinian boy goes after the killers soft under belly and takes out a half dozen Jews at some Batmitsva.

I say, send the Paly's another 50 tons of arms Iran and let's even up this fight against these Zionist bullies!

TAC, (:Þ~

PS: The Saudi's feeling that the US is about as 'even handed' with the Palestinian's as a fox stalking a hen have asked the US to get outta town by sundown ( just kidding ). Humm, how long before the US' right wingers start to threaten Saudi Arabia?
reply by
Tom Dooley
1/19/2002 (21:58)
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Who Would Have Imagined This?
An Editorial

http://www.thewinds.org/


In the night I had a dream. In the dream I was given a vision. In the vision I saw a man wander his way down onto a rock by a quiet lake. While there, a motorcycle with a side car appeared on the scene carrying Adolph Hitler and an aide. Adolph Hitler stood upon the rock where the man sat, and acted as though he were speaking to the entire earth. He boasted of his new world order, the Third Reich, and how he would be successful in bringing it to pass. He boasted of his new super government which would be worldwide and would bring many benefits. This government would be led by a super race of men. The man in my vision, who had wandered down to the lake, then awakened from his dream, as if to realize this event had come to pass while he slept. He did not know he had been sleeping.
When I saw these things, I saw them in light of Hitler's ultimate dream, and how it is now being brought to reality, but few men in the earth are made aware of it. It all seems a dream within a dream, within still, another dream. The smoke swirls around, obscuring the view of earth as to its circumstances. Men do not judge themselves by what they do, they judge by how good they think they are. If modern men do the same things as other monstrous dictators before them, they judge it right, since they see themselves as righteous in their actions. This is precisely why Hitler could do what he did. He said of himself, 'God is with me.' President Bush has said the same thing. Both Hitler and Bush called forth their righteous reasons for their actions.

In both cases each nation was strongly behind its leader. When Hitler fired up the Germans to protect the 'homeland,' and boasted the virtues of Germany, there seems no relationship in the minds of Americans when President Bush fires up Americans to protect the homeland, and boasts the virtues of America. Germany thought to unite the world in its new order, and so does America in its new order. Americans fail to see that the very same principles, and the very same goals, are common to the two regimes. Both regimes used the very same excuses for their aggression. Hypocrisy is the nature of man. Hypocrisy is when men do the very things they preach against. Americans preach against Nazi Germany, but do the very same things. Daisy cutter bombs can kill as many people as any crematorium. There is a difference, however. The German flag had a swastika on it.
Who would have thought that instead of the Reichstag fire, which launched the Nazis into the field of united power, there would be the destruction of the Twin Towers, uniting the earth against whomever it thinks is a common enemy? Who would guess that instead of a man named Adolph Hitler, there would replace him a man named George Bush? Instead of concentration camps named, Dachau, Auschwitz and Buchenwald, there would be camps named Guantanamo and Rhino? Who would have thought that the imprisonment of Jewish sympathizers by Nazi police would be replaced by Taliban or al Qaeda sympathizers? An American named John Walker may face life imprisonment because he was trained in a foreign army considered hostile to U.S. interests. He did not kill an American, and he did not attack America. In any other war, the prisoners of war are released, and allowed to go home after the war, but this war is ideological and not merely territorial, so the prisoners will be interned indefinitely, or killed, if they cannot be reeducated.


Nazi storm troopers are not now invading the countryside. Instead it is American special forces riding their ATV's through the desert. Thousands are now being interrogated and imprisoned simply because they sympathize with unpopular political entities, even though they have committed no crimes. The fact that they 'might commit a crime' is all that is required to round up these particular individuals. This was precisely the plan in Nazi Germany when the nation contained Jews and their sympathizers. Many detainees are incarcerated not because they have committed a crime, but because they look a certain way, or think a certain way.
If anyone has financial interests that might be connected to the Taliban or al Qaeda, they may have their money frozen, even though no crimes have been committed, or intended, by those possessing these funds. If one knows someone, or has done business with someone who is on the list, he may have all of his accounts frozen.
Who would have thought that the 'master' race would not be Aryan people of Hitler's dream, but Ashkenazi Jews who are also white? Even the Christians, whom Ashkenazi Jews detest, call these Jews, 'God's chosen people.' The word master means one highly skilled or one in authority. This master race has been placed in positions of authority and world dominance. The Christians call them 'gifted.' These white European Ashkenazi Jews were given, and set up in, a land called Israel, and their right to it was based solely on their race, and their race alone. Why should this race of men get their own country? No other race of men can claim ancient heritage, and take possession of lands that were owned by supposed ancestors, and displace the ones that now inhabit it. Would Americans allow the descendants of natives, who were living here two thousand years ago, to take over America? No! Then why is it that Americans think Ashkenazi Jews should be allowed to displace the Palestinians? Well, it seems right to them, even though it makes no sense.
Who would have thought that the plan of Adolph Hitler is being carried out right under the noses of those who say they detest the Nazi movement of the last century? A new world order is being established, and a super race will run it. This is what is proposed, but my Father has decreed otherwise. This fancy plan will come to nothing.
Who would have imagined these things? But then, in this modern age, who thinks?
reply by
Anne
1/19/2002 (23:15)
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America no longer follows the words that where once her steadfast flagbearer.

It used to be:

IN GOD WE TRUST!

it has been replaced by:

IN MONEY AND POWER WE TRUST! and all before us WILL bend to our NEW God's. We pay tribute to 'Rome' in the shape of massive profits that are funnelled back to HEAD OFFICE in New Yrok. Even here in Australia we RESENT Americans buying up our national icons and turning them into a shell of their former selves. The Americans have a irritating knack of telling US what is good for us. Her popcorn, coca cola tentacles are everywhere and they end up smothering the culture that is inherant in that country. Baseball caps turned backwards, baggy clothes and American slang as had a huge impact on Australian life........
Some of it has been good........but a vast bulk of it has been Negative too. Maybe that is why America finds herself in so much trouble with other countries, including western ones????